Am I missing something (totally possible) or does this seem like an error?
"Divination
Divination spells enable you to learn secrets long forgotten, predict the future, find hidden things, and foil deceptive spells.
Many divination spells have cone-shaped areas. These move with you and extend in the direction you choose. The cone defines the area that you can sweep each round. If you study the same area for multiple rounds, you can often gain additional information, as noted in the descriptive text for the spell."
Because it is giving someone information. Way, way too much information.
Azten wrote: Because it is giving someone information. Way, way too much information. Hehe. That would only be divination if it was a personal spell
Giving others information isn't a form of divination?"
Not in this case. Would you consider Suggestion, Dominate Person, Command or Visions of Hell to be divination?
Synaptic Overload even says "You cause *the target's mind* to unleash a vast overflowing torrent of information throughout the target's body, causing the target's synapses to violently trigger."
That doesn't really fit "enables you to learn secrets long forgotten, predict the future, find hidden things, and foil deceptive spells." You aren't divining anything, you are just manipulating the target's mind.
I suppose it should be an enchantment spell.
Ivarrwolfsong wrote: I suppose it should be an enchantment spell. Enchantment is about mind control, not the deliverance of informations
There is no information being delivered.
Synapse Overload: You cause the target's mind to unleash a vast overflowing torrent of information throughout the target's body, causing the target's synapses to violently trigger. The target takes 1d6 points of electrical damage per caster level (maximum 15d6) and is staggered for 1 minute. A successful Fortitude saving throw doesn't reduce the damage, but it negates the staggered effect.
If it said something about forcing "secrets which men should not know", "the combine lore of 10000 scholars", etc, etc, into someone's head causing his brain to melt, I'd be onboard for divination. This spell is basically just "direct damage weaponized" mind control. You are forcing his mind to do something in which the end result is damage.
I feel even more strongly that it should be enchantment the more I look into it.
Btw- All other Synaptic spells that mess with the target's synapses (ex: Synaptic Scramble, Synaptic Pulse) are enchantment spells.
It may just be that they have a "no dd blasts in enchantment" rule.
Quote: There is no information being delivered. Umm....
Quote: Synapse Overload: You cause the target's mind to unleash a vast overflowing torrent of information throughout the target's body, causing the target's synapses to violently trigger. The target takes 1d6 points of electrical damage per caster level (maximum 15d6) and is staggered for 1 minute. A successful Fortitude saving throw doesn't reduce the damage, but it negates the staggered effect.
Information from point A(the mind) is being delivered to point B(the body). It's divination. The not nice kind.
Tongues is precedent for a divination spell being able to grant increased knowledge or knowledge-acquiring abilities to others.
Divination spells are *often* personal spells, they don't have to be, and an offensive divination effect that opens up a target to overwhelming amounts of information (involuntary telepathic connection flooding them with 'noise,' or visions of a thousand terrible futures, or whatever) is just a logical outgrowth of the schools focus, and makes for some spells that allow Spell Focus (Divination) to be actually relevant.
It's also something fun from media, such as when the Phoenix opened up Mastermind's perceptions to the entire universe and burned out his brain in the Dark Phoenix saga (a scene that's been replicated in various shows, such as Andromeda).
The Divination (and Abjuration) schools could definitely use a few more spells that affect others.
Milo, That's not divination.
By the way you are reading "information" nearly all mind affecting enchantment spells would be divination as the targets brain is sending "information" throughout his body to follow your commands or suggestions. Heck, all pain spells would be divination as the body sends the pain "information" to the brain.
Like I said, if it uncovered hidden information or flooded his mind with some unspeakable future occurrence or the like, I suppose divination would make sense. Nowhere does it say or even insinuate that you flood his brain with info from YOUR mind or another source. This spell causes the target to overload his synapses with information from his own mind. . That's mind control, not learning forgotten secrets, piercing deceptive magic, finding hidden stuff, etc.
Except it isn't mindcontrol. It's not getting them to do anything. It's just sending information. Thus, it's divination.
To be honest, if you want to complain about spells being in the wrong spell school, go give the CRB a read. For godsake, sending is evocation. Healing is conjuration...
Part of the shtick of the Psychic is blasting with divination spells. Mind thrust is also divination.
Except no information is being sent from outside... It's the CASTER forcing the target's MIND to do something, in this case, to flood the body with the mind's information. You force their mind to do something... Seems like mind control, no?
Nothing says YOU send them information, nothing says YOU are unlocking some horrible vision in their future to shatter their mind with unspeakable information.
You are forcing their mind to do something. You are forcing it to unleash a torrent of information through the BODY. The damage is ELECTRICAL, not some sort of mental trauma. The mind is sending signals through the body causing "all synapses to violently trigger". It's not the mind sending the ankle the square root of area of Cthulhu's backside to the ankle.
I'd love some divination spells that cause damage via psychic shock from being shown some unknowable truth or vision of the unspeakable. This spell doesn't do that though.
I'm fine with it being divination for balance, or for a classes schtick. I'm just saying by flavor and the definitions we are giving, it does not fit in divination.
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote: Part of the shtick of the Psychic is blasting with divination spells. Mind thrust is also divination. Mind thrust absolutely makes sense as a divination spell :)
MIND THRUST: You divine the most vulnerable portions of your opponent's mind and overload it with a glut of psychic information.
This attack deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 5d6). The target receives a Will save for half damage. This attack has no effect on creatures without an Intelligence score.
Quote: The damage is ELECTRICAL No, the damage is synapses overloading.
Quote: cause damage via psychic shock from being shown some unknowable truth or vision of the unspeakable. Why does it "have to be from something that's unknowble" rather than being "every scrap of info inside your head at once"? Why is "every scrap of info inside your head at once" less justified?
Definitions nearly a decade old, and older if we don't look at Pathfinder alone.
Milo v3 wrote: Quote: The damage is ELECTRICAL No, the damage is synapses overloading.
Quote: cause damage via psychic shock from being shown some unknowable truth or vision of the unspeakable. Why does it "have to be from something that's unknowble" rather than being "every scrap of info inside your head at once"? Why is "every scrap of info inside your head at once" less justified? I'm saying kind of the same thing. The difference is that I'm saying that forcing the target to send signals from his own mind to his own body is not divination. If it made him discover something new or unleashed some hidden know knowledge or the like, it would fit divination. If it filled his head with our knowledge, or we probed his mind to find a weakness, that would fit divination. It doesn't do any of those things.
The damage is electrical damage. It's in the spell description.
I apologize if I'm coming off adversarial, that's not my intention.
Ivarrwolfsong wrote: Milo v3 wrote: Quote: The damage is ELECTRICAL No, the damage is synapses overloading.
Quote:
The damage is electrical damage. It's in the spell description.
I apologize if I'm coming off adversarial, that's not my intention.
the damage is electrical because pathfinder doesn't have a Psychic damage type, so electrical is the next best thing unless you think paizo should introduce more damage types; which is a separate issue.
Nathan Monson wrote: Ivarrwolfsong wrote: Milo v3 wrote: Quote: The damage is ELECTRICAL No, the damage is synapses overloading.
Quote:
The damage is electrical damage. It's in the spell description.
I apologize if I'm coming off adversarial, that's not my intention.
the damage is electrical because pathfinder doesn't have a Psychic damage type, so electrical is the next best thing unless you think paizo should introduce more damage types; which is a separate issue. Mind Thrust, which actually does what people seem to be saying Synapse Overload does, has untyped damage...
Recent threads in General Discussion
|
