Racial Heritage Feat allowed races

[MoonBright]

My friend wants to be a human with the racial heritage feat Sylph. His reasoning is that humans can get the feat Racial Heritage, with the restriction being that the heritage race must be Humanoid and given Sylph are created from Djinni breeding with Humans it should count. However, they use it not to classify beings that just look human, but also ones that have few or no supernatural or extraordinary abilities and usually have well developed societies. But in the bestiary it says "Sylphs are humans whose family trees include elemental beings of air, such as djinn." So isn't a Sylph already a human with racial heritage?

Looking for opinions and if possible a list of those races that are allowed to classify for the Racial Heritage feat

[Swivl]

RAW says no, since Sylphs are native outsiders and not humanoids, despite their shape.

All you really need to find out if a given race will qualify for racial heritage is the creature type given in the race description. Subtypes do not matter for the purpose of the feat, so goblinoids and giants are fine.

edit: correction.

[graystone]

Swivl wrote:

RAW says no, since Sylphs are native outsiders and not humanoids, despite their shape.

All you really need to find out if a given race will qualify for racial heritage is the creature type given in the race description. Subtypes do not matter for the purpose of the feat, so goblinoids and giants are fine.

edit: correction.

Sylphs can take the Mostly Human Alternate Racial Trait. That means some "count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes". So do you think racial heritage falls under "all purposes"?

PS: All ifrits, oreads, sulis, sylphs, and undines can take Mostly Human.
PPS: Of course a DM may disallow Alternate Racial Traits and instead require the base race be used. As with most things, make sure to run it past your DM first.

[Swivl]

graystone wrote:

Swivl wrote:

RAW says no, since Sylphs are native outsiders and not humanoids, despite their shape.

All you really need to find out if a given race will qualify for racial heritage is the creature type given in the race description. Subtypes do not matter for the purpose of the feat, so goblinoids and giants are fine.

edit: correction.

Sylphs can take the Mostly Human Alternate Racial Trait. That means some "count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes". So do you think racial heritage falls under "all purposes"?

PS: All ifrits, oreads, sulis, sylphs, and undines can take Mostly Human.
PPS: Of course a DM may disallow Alternate Racial Traits and instead require the base race be used. As with most things, make sure to run it past your DM first.

That's getting into the territory of GM call, I believe.

I probably would allow it if I was aware of the motive/endgame and it seemed reasonable enough.

I do think the default answer would be no for many GMs, however.

I think I just sort of like the idea of a distant-enough relative, like a djinn for a grandpa or something.

[Samasboy1]

graystone wrote:

Sylphs can take the Mostly Human Alternate Racial Trait. That means some "count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes". So do you think racial heritage falls under "all purposes"?

Regardless of what side you come down on, I have to say, I thought this was an interesting argument.

Normally, we see Mostly Human (and it's Tiefling and Aasimar versions) as an ability to let the Outsider take Human racial options.

Flipping it around like that....inventive.

[Snowblind]

Samasboy1 wrote:

graystone wrote:

Sylphs can take the Mostly Human Alternate Racial Trait. That means some "count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes". So do you think racial heritage falls under "all purposes"?

Regardless of what side you come down on, I have to say, I thought this was an interesting argument.

Normally, we see Mostly Human (and it's Tiefling and Aasimar versions) as an ability to let the Outsider take Human racial options.

Flipping it around like that....inventive.

As far as RAW goes, I wouldn't let it fly.

Some slyphs might also be humanoids because of an ability, but I wouldn't say that slyphs are a race of humanoids, no matter what abilities a tiny fraction of them have.

[Samasboy1]

Snowblind wrote:

As far as RAW goes, I wouldn't let it fly

I don't disagree. I just felt it was an intriguing argument.

[Torbyne]

Does the player want some human specific bonuses that they wouldnt get for being a mostly human Sylph?

[graystone]

Snowblind wrote:

Samasboy1 wrote:

graystone wrote:

Sylphs can take the Mostly Human Alternate Racial Trait. That means some "count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes". So do you think racial heritage falls under "all purposes"?

Regardless of what side you come down on, I have to say, I thought this was an interesting argument.

Normally, we see Mostly Human (and it's Tiefling and Aasimar versions) as an ability to let the Outsider take Human racial options.

Flipping it around like that....inventive.

As far as RAW goes, I wouldn't let it fly.

Some slyphs might also be humanoids because of an ability, but I wouldn't say that slyphs are a race of humanoids, no matter what abilities a tiny fraction of them have.

What would you say to someone using the spell alter self to change into a sylph with that Alternate Racial Trait? That only looks for humanoid.

Now I know this is a grey area and ends up with 'ask your DM'. To the argument that 'slyphs aren't a race of humanoids', you'll note that the books list subraces based on alternate racial traits taken [for core mostly]. It's not much of a jump to do the same for those with this trait.

Torbyne wrote:

Does the player want some human specific bonuses that they wouldnt get for being a mostly human Sylph?

Yes, the easiest thing to do is take a sylph with the trait unless you're looking for something you can only get from being an actual human like the bonus feat.