Hello all,
Hoping to get an official ruling on this. There are many actions in PF that are considered move actions that don't involve actually moving. How is this handled while flying?
The other day, I was playing my Alchemist, flying (potion), and wanted to make an Alchemical Weapon (arrow), prior to firing it. Making the alchemical weapon is considered a move action, but while flying you're essentially forced to move which would take the place of the move action.
I handled this by attempting a hover check, pending failure I'd move (fly) rather than make the Alchemical Weapon. However, I succeeded the hover check roll, then proceeded to make the weapon as my move action, and fire it as a standard. Was this handled correctly?
Thanks!
Seems OK. As far as I can tell, hovering doesn't require an action.
Action: None. A Fly check doesn't require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
Which means you have both a move and standard action free to do other things.
Awesome! Thank you.
While we are talking about this. What happens when you fail a hover check?
I believe you are then forced to move at least half your movement speed (30 feet in the case).
Avoid Falling Damage: If you are falling and have the ability to fly, you can make a DC 10 Fly check to negate the damage. You cannot make this check if you are falling due to a failed Fly check or a collision.
There is an implied rule that failing a fly check results in your plummeting towards the ground (and taking appropriate damage based on height).
That strongly implies that some failed Fly checks cause falling, but not that all failed Fly checks cause falling.
And right before that quote, there is an example of a case where you must roll Fly skill or fall.
Avoid Falling After Collision
If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage.
That strongly implies that some failed Fly checks cause falling, but not that all failed Fly checks cause falling.
Can you cite any rules that says what happens when you fail a fly check then? Or which fly check failures result in plummeting, and which fly check failures result in some other effect (currently I'm not aware of any other results being mentioned as a possibility for a failed fly check).
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Try Again: Varies. You can attempt a Fly check to perform the same maneuver on subsequent rounds. If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage (see Environment).
The flying rules are frustratingly vague. It has been argued that failing a fly check to hover requires you to move at least half speed forward. There are very few conditions which actually result in falling. Such as flying using wings and failing a fly check by five or more.
One house rule which I find absolutely necessary is that fliers must track their facing from one round to the next. Without that, the maneuverability classes lose all meaning.
It's not clear what happens if you fail a fly check by 4 or less, but the idea that you can't do what you want and instead have to move at least half your movement speed seems reasonable.
The rule regarding failing is: "If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage".
There is no other rule saying that you fall when attempting a specific action so it would seem that just the specific course of action cannot be taken. It would be nice if there would be explicit rule stating that with failed Fly check to hover you just move half the flight speed at once.
Failing a Fly check means you fail to fly. Really it can't get much simpler.
Failing a Fly check means you fail to fly. Really it can't get much simpler.
Actually, that simplistic interpretation doesn't fly. <g>
Try Again: Varies. You can attempt a Fly check to perform the same maneuver on subsequent rounds. If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage (see Environment).
The "Try again" section suggests that failing a check to perform a given maneuver simply requires you to wait until the next round to try again. If you are not using wings to fly (like with a fly spell), then the "plumet to the ground" clause never applies.
So what happens when you fail a check if either (a) you are not using wings, or (b) you are using wings but fail by less than 5? The rules never say. The implication is that you default to the fly action that doesn't require a check at all:
Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed.
Given the sparcity of details on what happens when you fail a fly check, house rules are nearly mandatory.
Failing a Fly check means you fail to fly.
Failing a Fly check to hover means you failed to hover. Failing a Fly check to fly would mean you failed to fly, but you don't need to make a Fly check to fly, so the situation doesn't arise.
Given what it says in the try again section, If you fail to hover (by 4 or less) that maneuver is no longer available to you until subsequent rounds. So you must new pick a different legal flying option (forward at half speed, forward being decided at the beginning of the turn as per RAW).
It makes sense except that the failed check is not costing you an action, which feels off in pathfinder.
Does 'plummet to the ground' not care if you are thousands of feet in the air? As in, once you start to plummet, you can't recover with a fly check or take any other action than fall to the ground even if that takes several more rounds?
Almost all flight in-game seems to happen fairly close to the ground. Flying in dungeons, mages flying over a battlefield to rain down destruction, dragons making flyby attacks, etc.
The rules seem to have that in mind.
Obviously, when the situation is different, the GM needs to make changes. Flying over the ocean? You don't plummet to the ground, you plummet to the sea. Flying in the plane of air with no ground anywhere? You plummet for a round (but can presumably attempt to fly next round or else the entire plane is full of permanently plummeting creatures who rolled ONE bad fly check some time in their life). Flying thousands of feet above the ground? You plummet for a round (but then can presumably attempt to fly next round or else no birds would ever live past their first mid-air encounter with a rival or predator). Etc.