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Rolling through Dune series on audiobooks ATM. Up to Dune Messiah. . I have to say the first one is the superior. The second one is supposedly only 12 years later but the scope of change in characters and culture seems artificially compressed.
I never got past God-Emporer of Dune back in the day. Has anyone else ever read Heretics of Dune or Chapterhouse Dune?
I'm not going any further than the original series. Too many books to read/listen to.
Yes, I've read the entire series. For the most part, I enjoyed every one of the books written by Frank Herbert, even though it started to get weirder towards the end. The main problem is that with Heretics and Chapterhouse, Frank was expanding on his story and building toward something big, but his untimely death left us twisting in the wind.
True, his son and that other guy finished the series, supposedly based off Frank's own notes. And the ultimate end was something long rumored among fans, but I can't help think Frank would have done it better.
I could go on, at great length and excruciating detail. In the end, the first book will always be the best, and would have done

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Oh, what the hell...
Whipping Star and The Dosadi Experiment (read in that order) are two of my other favorites. They introduce an altogether different universe than Dune, as well as one of my other favorite characters - Jorj X. McKie, a saboteur extraordianry who works for the Bureau of Sabotage. There are also a few short stories with this character (can be found in The Collected Stories of Frank Herbert).
The White Plague is pretty cool.
So are The Green Brain, The Santaroga Barrier, and The Eyes of Heisenberg (these three are very short, more like long novellas).
For my money, however, Destination: Void is my favorite non-Dune book. I've read that one three or four times, and am probably due for another turn at it. There was a sequel trilogy he worked on with Bill Ransom, but it suffered at the end from his death, leaving Ransom to finish the last book.

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I did read the White Plague a looooong time ago. That was the IRA kills biologist's wife and he retaliated with gruesome Plague?
Yup. First time I read it was about 10 years back. I happened to be in a library and came across it, so rented it. A couple years after that, I bought a used copy. After that, I bought a second, brand new reprint.

Ragadolf |

I did read the White Plague a looooong time ago. That was the IRA kills biologist's wife and he retaliated with gruesome Plague?
Wow. Now THAT's revenge! ;P
A few years ago I worked on a show 'The Lieutenant of Inishmoore'
Basically, This guy is so militant that he got kicked out of the IRA and joined a splinter group.
He was so crazy that they kicked him out of the splinter group. O_o
Only person crazier than him in the play was his girlfriend.
Yes, she was a redhead. ;P
It was a dark comedy. But it was a comedy. :)

Drejk |

Damn Kickstarters. So damn tempting
That one is particularly painfully tempting because I
1) Enjoy battletech.
2) will buy the game once it is out anyway
3) never had a flight jacket
I dread to think about the postage for a jacket, though.
And honestly, even if I had that kind of money I'd probably be too wary of the jacket package vanishing miraculously somewhere between post offices and such...

Drejk |

Rolling through Dune series on audiobooks ATM. Up to Dune Messiah. . I have to say the first one is the superior. The second one is supposedly only 12 years later but the scope of change in characters and culture seems artificially compressed.
I never got past God-Emperer of Dune back in the day. Has anyone else ever read Heretics of Dune or Chapterhouse Dune?
I'm not going any further than the original series. Too many books to read/listen to.
I admit to preferring God-Emperor the the Dune. The Messiah is different than Dune but I think that scope of changes is one of the main points really - the very very conservative society of the empire went into the turmoil because of Freemen Jihad.
Children give me mixed feelings.
Heretics and Chapterhouse are thousands years in the future and follow the fallout of Leto's reign. I like them very much and they have much more crypto-transhumanist vibes than earlier books.
I read one or two of books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson, and they are much-much worse and feel like they don't really fit. Those notes probably were very sketchy and outlining only the very general ideas...

Drejk |

Freehold DM wrote:I played Battletech while serving in Germany.Drejk wrote:Backing Battletech kickstarter at $275 tier gives a black or grey flight jacket with Battletech logo...
Anyone wants to buy a kidney?
I didn't know you loved battletech....
FOR THE REPUBLIC OF THE SPHERE!!
I smack myself on the head that once, when seeing a Battletech box at some ridiculously low price in shop on the outskirts of Zakopane I haven't bought it immediately... *sigh*
It's fun game.
I am not paying much attention to the setting really. It's the tactical gameplay that captures me.
Have I mentioned that during one gaming convention here in Kraków, a USA Embassy* attache (or something) organized a series of Battletech games. I spend a few hours playing him and won (by a stretch of hair, to be honest, thanks to a lucky hit - I think it was headshot). I don't remember the name for that style of game it was - each side gets four 'mechs of growing weight, that fight one-on-one with a new bigger one entering the combat to replace the eliminated one.
(Or from USA Consulate in Kraków, not sure)

Patrick Curtin |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Nothing is more important than reading the Black Company books.
I bought the RPG, but couldn't find anybody else who had read the books and wanted to play a Black Company game.
OK. we have to do this now. Do you want to play One Eye or Goblin? Because, honestly, that would be hellaciously fun.
I have the D20 version of Black Company. I got it during the infamous 'everything must go' Green Ronin sale.

Patrick Curtin |

Patrick Curtin wrote:I admit to preferring God-Emperor the the Dune. The Messiah is different than Dune but I think that scope of changes is one of the main points really - the very very conservative society of the empire went into the turmoil because of Freemen Jihad.Rolling through Dune series on audiobooks ATM. Up to Dune Messiah. . I have to say the first one is the superior. The second one is supposedly only 12 years later but the scope of change in characters and culture seems artificially compressed.
I never got past God-Emperer of Dune back in the day. Has anyone else ever read Heretics of Dune or Chapterhouse Dune?
I'm not going any further than the original series. Too many books to read/listen to.
12 years and the Fremen are decadent, there are thousands off offworld pilgrims, and the Cult of Muad'dib is accepted across the whole galaxy. Even Mohammed (cbuh) would be impressed by that level of change from a time span that basically is the same as now to 2005.
Children give me mixed feelings.
Yeah I don't remember that one much. I do remember a lot of God-Emperor and it was fairly interesting.
Heretics and Chapterhouse are thousands years in the future and follow the fallout of Leto's reign. I like them very much and they have much more crypto-transhumanist vibes than earlier books.
Good to hear.
I read one or two of books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson, and they are much-much worse and feel like they don't really fit. Those notes probably were very sketchy and outlining only the very general ideas...
I'm kind of a prude when it comes to other people finishing series for departed authors. Especially when there seems to be an awful lot of 'unfinished' books that come out , to the point where they outnumber the original series....

Storyteller Shadow |

Treppa wrote:Nothing is more important than reading the Black Company books.
I bought the RPG, but couldn't find anybody else who had read the books and wanted to play a Black Company game.
OK. we have to do this now. Do you want to play One Eye or Goblin? Because, honestly, that would be hellaciously fun.
I have the D20 version of Black Company. I got it during the infamous 'everything must go' Green Ronin sale.
Hah. Never even knew there was an RPG for this!
I'll put the next Black Company book on my list fr next read once I finish the book I am currently reading.

Storyteller Shadow |

Drejk |

12 years and the Fremen are decadent, there are thousands off offworld pilgrims, and the Cult of Muad'dib is accepted across the whole galaxy. Even Mohammed (cbuh) would be impressed by that level of change from a time span that basically is the same as now to 2005.
Remember that Fremens have a messianic, paradise-promising religion. And suddenly... *flash* The messiah came! He lead them into the stars to fight against some faithless weaklings! They found themselves visiting what was basically multiple paradises (water! water falling from the sky! water as far as you can see!). And those paradises were all inhabited by faithless weaklings who did not earned those paradises, have lived without sacrifices or discipline... So what was the Fremen discipline and sacrifices worth in the first place?
Drejk wrote:I read one or two of books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson, and they are much-much worse and feel like they don't really fit. Those notes probably were very sketchy and outlining only the very general ideas...I'm kind of a prude when it comes to other people finishing series for departed authors. Especially when there seems to be an awful lot of 'unfinished' books that come out , to the point where they outnumber the original series....
I have a rather simple opinion about it... "Don't". Even when I hate certain authors for daring to die before finishing the series or writing more and more (Frank Herbert, Roger Zelazny, and Karl Wagner being the biggest culprits).

Drejk |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Treppa wrote:Nothing is more important than reading the Black Company books.
I bought the RPG, but couldn't find anybody else who had read the books and wanted to play a Black Company game.
OK. we have to do this now. Do you want to play One Eye or Goblin? Because, honestly, that would be hellaciously fun.
I have the D20 version of Black Company. I got it during the infamous 'everything must go' Green Ronin sale.
Silent before he got hit by stupid-stick in prelude to Silver Spike.

Ragadolf |

Ragadolf wrote:You should rectify that post-hasteThe Black Company?
That sounds familiar,... but I don't think I've read them? :/
I shall put those on my list.
That book showcases one of the best wizard rivalries EVAR
I shall now move it UP the list! :)

Patrick Curtin |

Patrick Curtin wrote:12 years and the Fremen are decadent, there are thousands off offworld pilgrims, and the Cult of Muad'dib is accepted across the whole galaxy. Even Mohammed (cbuh) would be impressed by that level of change from a time span that basically is the same as now to 2005.Remember that Fremens have a messianic, paradise-promising religion. And suddenly... *flash* The messiah came! He lead them into the stars to fight against some faithless weaklings! They found themselves visiting what was basically multiple paradises (water! water falling from the sky! water as far as you can see!). And those paradises were all inhabited by faithless weaklings who did not earned those paradises, have lived without sacrifices or discipline... So what was the Fremen discipline and sacrifices worth in the first place?
I get that, but .... 12 years? 30-40...MAYBE. It just seemed to me like every character from Dune had mutated into a totally different character in Dune Messiah. It just irritated my verisimilitude gland.

Patrick Curtin |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Patrick Curtin wrote:Ragadolf wrote:You should rectify that post-hasteThe Black Company?
That sounds familiar,... but I don't think I've read them? :/I shall put those on my list.
Patrick Curtain wrote:I shall now move it UP the list! :)That book showcases one of the best wizard rivalries EVAR
the epic magical prank wars of One-Eye and Goblin are some of the best-written magic battles...

Drejk |

Drejk wrote:I get that, but .... 12 years? 30-40...MAYBE. It just seemed to me like every character from Dune had mutated into a totally different character in Dune Messiah. It just irritated my verisimilitude gland.Patrick Curtin wrote:12 years and the Fremen are decadent, there are thousands off offworld pilgrims, and the Cult of Muad'dib is accepted across the whole galaxy. Even Mohammed (cbuh) would be impressed by that level of change from a time span that basically is the same as now to 2005.Remember that Fremens have a messianic, paradise-promising religion. And suddenly... *flash* The messiah came! He lead them into the stars to fight against some faithless weaklings! They found themselves visiting what was basically multiple paradises (water! water falling from the sky! water as far as you can see!). And those paradises were all inhabited by faithless weaklings who did not earned those paradises, have lived without sacrifices or discipline... So what was the Fremen discipline and sacrifices worth in the first place?
You haven't seen that big cultural and political change in a decade. I had (even though I had been a pouchling for a part of them). Moving from access to limited, rationed even (literally in some cases) goods, to dreamed-of abundance. People who fought for ideas becoming corrupted, allies turning into bitter political enemies. People struggling with adjustment to changes, people embracing the change, people redefining their world view. Many people can change some aspects of their personality much more easily than it is thought, given the conditions. Other aspects might remain the same but be hidden or overwhelmed by traits that changed. Other change inside while pretending to be the same to superficial scrutiny.
EDIT: It doesn't have to be a real change of heart, just manifestation of traits that were suppressed by different conditions. Restrictive circumstances can stress positive behaviors, they can stress negative behaviors. Ditto looser circumstances.

John Napier 698 |
Backing Battletech kickstarter at $275 tier gives a black or grey flight jacket with Battletech logo...
Anyone wants to buy a kidney?
No, no, no! Don't sell a kidney. You'll need both to deal with all the Vodka you'll be drinking. Seriously, though. I knew someone from Poland. He was a Sociology graduate from Pitt University. Then he took a job teaching English in South Korea. So, if anyone meets a Korean speaking English with a heavy Polish accent, you'll know that Piotr was his instructor.

Ragadolf |

Drejk wrote:No, no, no! Don't sell a kidney. You'll need both to deal with all the Vodka you'll be drinking. Seriously, though. I knew someone from Poland. He was a Sociology graduate from Pitt University. Then he took a job teaching English in South Korea. So, if anyone meets a Korean speaking English with a heavy Polish accent, you'll know that Piotr was his instructor.Backing Battletech kickstarter at $275 tier gives a black or grey flight jacket with Battletech logo...
Anyone wants to buy a kidney?
OK, now THIS just screams awesome! :)

aeglos |

John Napier 698 wrote:I also resolve to try to learn how to speak Japanese, so that I may be of better use to the Anime convention I work for.That reminds me. If I'm doing Central Europe in '18 I need to get my Geman up to the ask directions level.
Wo sind die Badezimmer?
noch ein Bier bitte!
mich nicht, ich bin kanadisch!
Badezimmer is the correct translation for bathroom, but no one will know what you mean outside of a private house you need to ask for the Toilette or the Klo

aeglos |

Drejk wrote:Patrick Curtin wrote:Feros wrote:Good to know, eh?Patrick Curtin wrote:I doubt that anyone except British (and possibly French who will assume that Canadian should speak with French accent) will notice. Maybe linguists and people who returned from a long stay in USA. Otherwise, don't expect European to discern between various American and Canadian accents.Feros wrote:My only downfall will be my pronounced Bostonian accent. I'll need to work on my Maritime lilt, and remembering to call every strange male 'buddy'. Oh, and of course the ever-present 'eh'. Although that seems to be more of a Boomer generation thing.Patrick Curtin wrote:That's what I need to find out. Honestly I'd rather travel under a Canadian passport. Just because. I don't even know if I can hold two passports at one time.For one thing, you get a lot less spit in your food when you eat out while travelling with a Canadian passport...or so I've been told.
<.<
>.> [/Q
;)
Germans can hardly distinct between British English and some Accent - which could be American, Canadian, Australian or anything else - anything not not British sounds the same to us :-)
well maybe we recognisze scottish

aeglos |

Drejk wrote:I never had any trouble. All the times I've been to Italy, they all just assumed I was English because I was polite.Patrick Curtin wrote:I doubt that anyone except British (and possibly French who will assume that Canadian should speak with French accent) will notice. Maybe linguists and people who returned from a long stay in USA. Otherwise, don't expect European to discern between various American and Canadian accents.Feros wrote:My only downfall will be my pronounced Bostonian accent. I'll need to work on my Maritime lilt, and remembering to call every strange male 'buddy'. Oh, and of course the ever-present 'eh'. Although that seems to be more of a Boomer generation thing.Patrick Curtin wrote:Feros wrote:How exactly would anyone serving you food know you had a Canadian passport? I mean, unless you have a big maple leaf embroidered on your backpack or somethingPatrick Curtin wrote:That's what I need to find out. Honestly I'd rather travel under a Canadian passport. Just because. I don't even know if I can hold two passports at one time.For one thing, you get a lot less spit in your food when you eat out while travelling with a Canadian passport...or so I've been told.
<.<
>.>
The Canadian flag embroidered on your backpack is a time honoured method of indicating our nationality. The passport can act as a backup in case someone suspects you of being an American trying to pass.
;)
but remember Germans can't handle polite very well, tone down American politness by 50% to avoid people thinking you make fun of them.
50% of American politness is roughly 230% of common German politness
David M Mallon |

Celestial Healer wrote:Drejk wrote:I never had any trouble. All the times I've been to Italy, they all just assumed I was English because I was polite.Patrick Curtin wrote:I doubt that anyone except British (and possibly French who will assume that Canadian should speak with French accent) will notice. Maybe linguists and people who returned from a long stay in USA. Otherwise, don't expect European to discern between various American and Canadian accents.Feros wrote:My only downfall will be my pronounced Bostonian accent. I'll need to work on my Maritime lilt, and remembering to call every strange male 'buddy'. Oh, and of course the ever-present 'eh'. Although that seems to be more of a Boomer generation thing.Patrick Curtin wrote:Feros wrote:How exactly would anyone serving you food know you had a Canadian passport? I mean, unless you have a big maple leaf embroidered on your backpack or somethingPatrick Curtin wrote:That's what I need to find out. Honestly I'd rather travel under a Canadian passport. Just because. I don't even know if I can hold two passports at one time.For one thing, you get a lot less spit in your food when you eat out while travelling with a Canadian passport...or so I've been told.
<.<
>.>
The Canadian flag embroidered on your backpack is a time honoured method of indicating our nationality. The passport can act as a backup in case someone suspects you of being an American trying to pass.
;)
but remember Germans can't handle polite very well, tone down American politness by 50% to avoid people thinking you make fun of them.
50% of American politness is roughly 230% of common German politness
What about Canadian politeness?

Storyteller Shadow |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

Celestial Healer wrote:Drejk wrote:I never had any trouble. All the times I've been to Italy, they all just assumed I was English because I was polite.Patrick Curtin wrote:I doubt that anyone except British (and possibly French who will assume that Canadian should speak with French accent) will notice. Maybe linguists and people who returned from a long stay in USA. Otherwise, don't expect European to discern between various American and Canadian accents.Feros wrote:My only downfall will be my pronounced Bostonian accent. I'll need to work on my Maritime lilt, and remembering to call every strange male 'buddy'. Oh, and of course the ever-present 'eh'. Although that seems to be more of a Boomer generation thing.Patrick Curtin wrote:Feros wrote:How exactly would anyone serving you food know you had a Canadian passport? I mean, unless you have a big maple leaf embroidered on your backpack or somethingPatrick Curtin wrote:That's what I need to find out. Honestly I'd rather travel under a Canadian passport. Just because. I don't even know if I can hold two passports at one time.For one thing, you get a lot less spit in your food when you eat out while travelling with a Canadian passport...or so I've been told.
<.<
>.>
The Canadian flag embroidered on your backpack is a time honoured method of indicating our nationality. The passport can act as a backup in case someone suspects you of being an American trying to pass.
;)
but remember Germans can't handle polite very well, tone down American politness by 50% to avoid people thinking you make fun of them.
50% of American politness is roughly 230% of common German politness

aeglos |

aeglos wrote:Well I'm still aiming for summer 2018 to visit Central Europe. Hopefully you can show me these wonderful places firsthand!Patrick Curtin wrote:aeglos wrote:That's sad. It's amazing you have an apothecary that predates the settlement of Eastern North America (Vikings notwithstanding). What a loss!in my hometown Gelnhausen, yesterday the Unicorn Apothecary closed after beeing in buisness for 434 years, founded 1582.
the interiour was unchangd since the last refurbishing in 1850.the closing is due to difficulties in meeting pharamcy regulations and historic site regulations at the same time and fewer customers due to no parking space right in front of the building, you had to walk almost 100 meters o.O
:-(
I learned today that they will preserv the apothecary rooms and male them available for guided tours, thats something at least
and in the same street is an Inn called "The Lion" which was in the same family since 1506, until last year the widow of the last owner tricked her stepson out of the testament and sold it to someone else, grrrrrr at least it is still in buisness and mostly unchanged
I will !!!
you need to plan at least 3 days at my house !!
aeglos |

aeglos wrote:What about Canadian politeness?Celestial Healer wrote:Drejk wrote:I never had any trouble. All the times I've been to Italy, they all just assumed I was English because I was polite.Patrick Curtin wrote:I doubt that anyone except British (and possibly French who will assume that Canadian should speak with French accent) will notice. Maybe linguists and people who returned from a long stay in USA. Otherwise, don't expect European to discern between various American and Canadian accents.Feros wrote:My only downfall will be my pronounced Bostonian accent. I'll need to work on my Maritime lilt, and remembering to call every strange male 'buddy'. Oh, and of course the ever-present 'eh'. Although that seems to be more of a Boomer generation thing.Patrick Curtin wrote:Feros wrote:How exactly would anyone serving you food know you had a Canadian passport? I mean, unless you have a big maple leaf embroidered on your backpack or somethingPatrick Curtin wrote:That's what I need to find out. Honestly I'd rather travel under a Canadian passport. Just because. I don't even know if I can hold two passports at one time.For one thing, you get a lot less spit in your food when you eat out while travelling with a Canadian passport...or so I've been told.
<.<
>.>
The Canadian flag embroidered on your backpack is a time honoured method of indicating our nationality. The passport can act as a backup in case someone suspects you of being an American trying to pass.
;)
but remember Germans can't handle polite very well, tone down American politness by 50% to avoid people thinking you make fun of them.
50% of American politness is roughly 230% of common German politness
is canadian politness like english politness? then it is 487% ofGerman politness !