Charmed Person Player

[Master Codex]

The group was moving through a dangerous swamp, blah blah, one player fell in a dark chasm and was in trouble of being eaten by a creature. The character believes that the strong always win so he was weak and this was deserved. Another player goes down with a rope and a couple of cool rolls and rounds later they save him when the other 3 players, who are all nonstrength characters, manage to pull them up and the beast nat 1'd it's swallow whole and crashes into the cavern, sealing it away. Now this player becomes upset, he wanted his character to die. This is interesting to say the least, but when his character goes off towards the direction of the people chasing the party, the sorcerer casts charm person and wins. Now our player is upset and is threatening the party in character and deliberately trying to sabotage the party, such as talking loudly when the party tries to stealth and telling the sorcerer directly, who he is supposed to be friendly with, that he will murder him in his sleep. This is all rather annoying to me because it detracts from the game I think, because this is more of a player being upset rather than a character. How do you think this should be handled within confines of the spell, is this player right? Or do you think the group is right to be upset with the player.

[StabbittyDoom]

Charm person basically makes you think of the caster as your best friend. Would you actively attempt to get your friend killed or hurt? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the person. A drow totally would if it gave her even a minor advantage, a paladin wouldn't even if it meant staring down the devil himself.

But that is neither here nor there. The problem is neither the spell nor the character, it's the players. They need to work out their differences before any attempt at an in-game solution can be worked out. You need the offended to clearly articulate why they are upset and work towards a solution from there. Apologies will likely be needed. Once the players get back into working-together mode they can work together to figure out how to make things work in game in a way that keeps the game fun.

[Alshoodone]

Generally speaking, anyone that gets hit with charm person is going to be upset, because now you have to grit your teeth and do what they say. Ironically enough, it's kind of like working with people you hate, but have to "play nice" with so you don't get fired.

Eerily similar.

[Elrawien Lantherion]

Charm Person is not dominatation. They are friends not automatons

[Yossarin]

Looks like this is your time to step up, GM. Like StabbityDoom says, the origin of this annoying issue is not in the game, it is outside of the game amongst the players. I don't know what the player's motivations are for wanting to have his character killed, but since you play a major role in determining how much fun the players have, it would be good to have a conversation with him about it. Maybe the player wants to play a new character or something. As the GM, you can facilitate the old character's exit and the new one's entrance - if he wants to just leave the party with his shoulders sunken, he should generally be able to do so without repercussion, though some situations may vary. You could also offer to arrange his heroic death so that he gets a small high from it.

More importantly, if you haven't already, you may want to have a table discussion about the use of enchantments like Charm Person between party members. Some players are cool with it, some are not, and this is an important ground rule to establish early on so that you can manage everyone's expectations. It really sounds like your player may be one of the players who really does not like the idea of his own party mate "controlling" him (though this results more from a lack of understanding of how Charm Person works more than anything.) All the same, Charm Person does hijack a character's free will, and it is one thing if that is in the hands of an enemy and another if it is in the hands of another PC.

Good luck resolving this amongst your players. Have patience and I hope the game is able to remain a great story in spite of this hiccup.

[Rub-Eta]

This is not how the spell works, as mentioned above.

Honestly, it seems to be a problem with the player. It's one thing to roleplay someone who was 100% prepared to die and then gets rescued in the last second. But that's not what he's doing, he's pvp:ing and ruins the fun for the others. If the character feels dishonored and that he should be dead, he should just kill himself, not get his friends killed.

If the player really wants his character to be dead, kill it. If the player doesn't care and thinks that ruining the fun is good RP, kill it. If the player wants to keep going with the same character, make him understand that he can only do so while not ruining the fun for the others, otherwise you should consider booting the player.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Friends sacrifice their time and health and wealth for friends, right?

Give the character a chance to make a 'noble sacrifice' for his friends.

If the rest of the party is dick-ish about it and fails to accept that, well, that changes the dynamic.

(I once had a character who was very self-sacrificing -- a bad leader in that regard -- but everyone was keeping him alive because no one else wanted to be in charge. When someone admitted that was the case out of character, I worked with the GM to have the character die 'off-screen' so the party couldn't pull the shenanigans to keep said character alive.)

It sounds more like the idea of 'character agency' appearing to be removed from a player is what is causing the issue. Were the characters friends to begin with? If so, then Charm Person might do nothing in terms of story.

And if the player is trying to play a modified 'survivor guilt' or 'post traumatic stress disorder' with their character there are ways to do that working with the party that will make for a much better story, as well.

[Jack of Dust]

Assuming the Sorcerer beat the other character in a Charisma check (he probably did), the other character should be doing what was commanded. That being said, it is often considered poor form to use charm or domination effects on other players. From what the OP has told us, the player obviously wants to retire his current character and the OP will definitely need to work with him moving forward. I think he should also talk to the Sorcerer about using charm spells on members of the party, that kind of behavior will often detract from the game and can be very disruptive.

[Wyborn Cathmor]

Jack of Dust wrote:

Assuming the Sorcerer beat the other character in a Charisma check (he probably did), the other character should be doing what was commanded. That being said, it is often considered poor form to use charm or domination effects on other players. From what the OP has told us, the player obviously wants to retire his current character and the OP will definitely need to work with him moving forward. I think he should also talk to the Sorcerer about using charm spells on members of the party, that kind of behavior will often detract from the game and can be very disruptive.

No, they really shouldn't. Do you do everything your friends tell you to do, no questions asked? Charm Person, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread, is NOT Dominate Person.

You cannot command any under the effects of Charm Person to do anything. You can ask them nicely... you know, like a friend would.

Once more for emphasis... Charm Person is NOT Dominate.

[Jack of Dust]

Wyborn Cathmor wrote:

Jack of Dust wrote:

Assuming the Sorcerer beat the other character in a Charisma check (he probably did), the other character should be doing what was commanded. That being said, it is often considered poor form to use charm or domination effects on other players. From what the OP has told us, the player obviously wants to retire his current character and the OP will definitely need to work with him moving forward. I think he should also talk to the Sorcerer about using charm spells on members of the party, that kind of behavior will often detract from the game and can be very disruptive.

No, they really shouldn't. Do you do everything your friends tell you to do, no questions asked? Charm Person, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread, is NOT Dominate Person.

No, I don't which is precisely the point. From the Charm Person description; "You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do. " While Charm Person is not Dominate Person, it is ridiculously good because of this addition since it doesn't allow an extra save if you order the subject to do something they wouldn't normally do. I personally think it's a little too powerful but that is the spell as written.

[Master Codex]

I did talk to the player, he basically says the character wants to die now, it's written in his backstory, because he believes strong kills weak and he was weak because someone else helped him. I think that's weird because of tons of organisms that thrive in communities like ants and crows and what is he, lol a human, nah those don't work in communities. All the same his character is now suicidal and is angry at the player characters and he's already making a new character. He argues that it's within the confines of charm person to do what he did because even though he was told to stay safe and he f*%+ing screams at people persuing them and wanting to kill them, his argument is "well maybe they changed their mind and it's safer to be in a house than a tree". Etc. He just wants the character dead and frankly I'm more annoyed that he would play a character that's this suicidal, what's the point of playing the character then.

[Jack of Dust]

Putting his "friend" at risk was definitely not within the confines of the spell unless he is in the habit of trying to get his friends killed. It's possible that he was playing his character with a strange honour system but it seems clear that he wasn't planning on his character living very long in the first place. How you move forward from this, is of course, between you and the player but if you don't want him going through characters like toilet paper then you need to make that clear.

[Guru-Meditation]

This is an out-of-game problem that needs to solved out-of-game.

Simple as that. No amount of discussing Charm/Dominate will change anything at that. Doesnt solve anything.