4). Also, UMD can't increase your caster level with a staff.
It's not caster level, it's Oracle level. And I don't think it's a staff, either. You know, with the whole "ring of revelation" deal.
The point is, UMD allows you to activate magic items, nothing more. The OP's question is basically the same as the (much more common) question of whether i can emulate CL 20 with UMD to supercharge a staff.
I think Casual Viking draws the correct analogy.
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In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20
Staff activation cl doesn't matter for this at all.
1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
The ring doesn't do anything to set your bab. Activating the ring does what the ring says it does. You will gain the feats listed for your UMD result.
The answer is 1. Your effective level in Oracle for the use of the item is your UMD check -20. I have personally spoken with Mark Seifter to confirm that this is how it currently works at GENCON this past summer. He agrees that UMD could use a blog post.
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
Looking at the mystery you get from the ring:
Select one type of combat maneuver. When performing the selected maneuver, you treat your oracle level as your base attack bonus when determining your CMB. At 7th level, you gain the Improved feat (such as Improved Trip) that grants you a bonus when performing that maneuver. At 11th level, you gain the Greater feat (such as Greater Trip) that grants you a bonus when performing that maneuver. You do not need to meet the prerequisites to receive these feats.
For the use of the Ring your oracle level is your UMD check -20. If you got a 45 on your UMD then your effective oracle level would be 25. Your BAB for determining CMB for the use of the chosen combat maneuver would be 25. See the bolder sentence in the quote above.
My personal feelings on it is that you should be able to use UMD if you don't have a level in oracle and I posted a lot about it, but especially in PFS you should defer to Paizo staff.
If you are playing in a home game, I recommend capping effective level at HD, it fixes a lot of problems.
4). Also, UMD can't increase your caster level with a staff.
If the spell being cast is not on your spell list and you are emulating the class ability "Spells" from another class, your effective level in that class is your UMD check -20. You could very easily get very high numbers. If when activating the staff you are effectively a 25th level wizard, you are casting spells out of the staff at caster level 25.
This is why in home games I recommend capping emulated level at HD.
Maneuver Mastery is nowhere near the most powerful use of UMD and RoRs.
A much shorter duration but far more powerful use is
You can summon the spirit of a great warrior ancestor and allow it to possess you, becoming a mighty warrior yourself. You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, and a +4 natural armor bonus to AC. Your base attack bonus while possessed equals your oracle level (which may give you additional attacks), and you gain the Improved Critical feat with a weapon of your choice. You can use this ability for 1 round for every 2 oracle levels you possess. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-round increments. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation.
Combine with power attack and a two handed weapon for serious shenanigans.
If you build to UMD, getting a result in the 60s is fairly easy by level 10 or 11. A BAB of 60-20=40 gives a huge bonus to damage with power attack.Please remember that PFS is a cooperative game and just because you can do it doesn't mean you should, it depends on your group. Don't be "that guy".
For theory crafting or in groups that are all about shenanigans, go for it. UMD is the most power skill in the game, but only if you invest heavily in it.
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Cullen, you have totalli missed the phrase after the one you bolded:
It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature.
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
UMD set your level of the use of the ring, right.
It don't set anything for your BAB or maneuver mastery.1) UMD check at 45, you activate the ring as if you were a 25th level oracle. So you can activate a superior ring of revelation.
Done that UMD has done everything it can do.
2) You get Maneuver Mastery.
Maneuver Mastery (Ex): Select one type of combat maneuver. When performing the selected maneuver, you treat your oracle level as your base attack bonus (plus the BAB from other classes) when determining your CMB. At 7th level, you gain the Improved feat (such as Improved Trip) that grants you a bonus when performing that maneuver. At 11th level, you gain the Greater feat (such as Greater Trip) that grants you a bonus when performing that maneuver. You do not need to meet the prerequisites to receive these feats.
What it do? It check your actual oracle level. UMD has nothing to do with this. You used it to get the feat, it don't change in any way your oracle level.
So, as the OP has 1 oracle his BAB of 0 become 1. Then he add the BAB from his other class levels.
Doesn'ìt work that way Diego.
1) Check UMD = 45 Oracle level 25
2) Activate ring as an Oracle 25
3) Ring is being activated by an Oracle 25, give back bonus to that Oracle
4) That oracle happens to be you
Activate an item includes determining it's bonus. Some items give different bonus depending on the users.
For example, an Holy Avenger. In the same way that you can emulate being a paladin to get a higher bonus from an Holy Avengers, you should be able to use UMD to emulate a higher level Oracle to get a higher bonus from the ring, or from a staff.
@Diego Rossi,
You are emulating the class feature "mystery". You do not gain the mystery, you only gain what the item gives you for having that mystery. The item in question gives you a revelation. In this case the revelation that you gain the use of has a level dependent variable. Your effective level in the class is your UMD check -20. If you activate the ring as an effective 20th level oracle. You gain the benifits it would give a 20th level oracle. In this case a very high CMB on one type of manuever.
You, as you quoted above, do not gain the class feature you are emulating, in this case the oracle mystery. You just get what the item gives you. That line is in there for items that give you extra uses of class abilities. You could not emulate "smite evil" to gain the use of an item that gives you two extra uses of smite and then claim that you have two uses. The emulation is only to fulfill prerequisites of item use. In this cases you activate the item as if you had the emulated mystery.
Hopefully this is cleared up with the UMD blog post we are hoping for.
Dekalinder, Holy Avenger is actually a corner case. Unlike the Ring of Revelations where you emulate the class feature "mystery", the Holy Avenger does not require a class feature for the more powerful use. It instead just requires a class, in this case paladin. This brings up the esoteric argument over whether being a class is a class feature of being that class. There are arguments on both sides of that one.
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Doesn'ìt work that way Diego.
1) Check UMD = 45 Oracle level 25
2) Activate ring as an Oracle 25
3) Ring is being activated by an Oracle 25, give back bonus to that Oracle
4) That oracle happens to be youActivate an item includes determining it's bonus. Some items give different bonus depending on the users.
For example, an Holy Avenger. In the same way that you can emulate being a paladin to get a higher bonus from an Holy Avengers, you should be able to use UMD to emulate a higher level Oracle to get a higher bonus from the ring, or from a staff.
Wrong sequence
1) Check UMD = 45 Oracle level 252) UMD give you the ability to activate the ring as if you were a oracle 25. At most you need to be a oracle 11 to activate a superior ring of revelation, so you can activate any ring. End of UMD
3) The ring give you Maneuver Mastery. End of what the ring do.
4) Now you can use the Maneuver Mastery mystery. That is what check you oracle level to determine the BAB.Your oracle level is 1? BAB 1
UMD don't set your level for Maneuver Mastery, it set your level for activating the ring for 1 hour. Nothing more.
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UMD and RoR works like this step by step.
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
A ring of revelation is a divine item attuned to a particular oracular mystery and containing a revelation associated with that mystery (see the oracle class description). While wearing the ring, an oracle has access to that revelation and may use it as if she had it as a normal class feature. The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the ring, and must meet the level requirements (if any) of the revelation itself; for example, a ring of revelation (combat healer) is only usable by an oracle of at least 7th level with the battle mystery. If the oracle already has that revelation and the revelation gives an ability with a limited number of uses per day, the oracle can use that ability one additional time per day. The ring has no effect if worn by a non-oracle.
Step 1 The Oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the ring.
If you have the mystery look no further the ring works, if not you can use UMD to emulate the class feature "mystery".Step 2 Make a UMD check to emulate the class feature "mystery" take the result of this check and subtract 20. This is your effective level in the class (oracle) for the activation of this item. Provided you get at least a 21 (some say 20) you also can pretend to have the emulated class feature just for the purpose of using the item. In this case the class feature emulated is the mystery. You gain no uses of the mystery nor benefits from it. You simply can use the item as if you had the mystery.
Step 3 You now meet the requirements for the use of the item. Congratulations, it activates. But what are the results of that activation. The item grants you a revelation. The level based effects are based off your effective level. Your effective level is your UMD check-20.
An awesome revelation is Mental Acuity, for a cheap inherent bonus to Intelligence.
Outside of PFS, this is AMAZING for VMC oracles.
Because of the wording of the revelation it does not work well with the RoR.
: Your explorations into the secret mysteries of the world have granted you a preternatural understanding of all things—and you just keep getting smarter. You gain a +1 inherent bonus to Intelligence upon taking this revelation and another at every third oracle level gained thereafter. You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.
For ongoing effects you have to make a UMD check every hour.
If you are using the check to emulate an alignment or some other quality in an ongoing manner, you need to make the relevant Use Magic Device check once per hour.
I am not sure that you are ever really gaining levels while the ring is active. You could argue that if you had a low roll and then a high roll that you "gained" levels. I would be dubious of this as a DM. Your effective level certainly changes but I don't think the levels are "gained". I would rule that you only get the +1 inherent bonus. The case would be different if the inherent bonus was tied to level not to levels gained since gaining the revelation.
Seems pretty clear to me.
When performing the selected maneuver, you treat your oracle level as your base attack bonus (plus the BAB from other classes) when determining your CMB.
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Seems pretty clear to me.
When performing the selected maneuver, you treat your oracle level as your base attack bonus (plus the BAB from other classes) when determining your CMB.
Yes, you add the other class BAB.
And that piece of text, Cullen, is exactly why your UMD argument fail.
UMD is used to activate the item. That is the moment when your UMD result is checked. But when you actually use the mystery it don't check at all the number you used to activate the ring. It is a separate action from the one in which you used UMD and it check your actual value.
Your argument work with staves, as the activation of the staff and the determination of the level at which you cast the spell are part of the same action. it don't work when the item on which you used UMD give you an ability that when activated with a separate action check one of your values.
There is a sequence of actions. You are lumping the activation of the ring with the activation of the mystery, but they are different actions and UMD has no effect on the second.