Demoralize + Improved Dirge of Doom = Fear?

[Valkir]

I'm playing a bard that can use Improved Dirge of Doom, perform as a move action, and have several ways to demoralize (skill use, Dazzling Display, Blistering Invective). There is a high probability the demoralize will stick for more than a round.
The CRB 6th printing on demoralize and the entry on D20PFSRD.com are worded differently, so if anyone knows which is the accepted wording I'd appreciate a link stating so.

I'd like to run off different scenarios, and ask for feedback on correct outcomes.
A) Start turn with IDoD; demoralize as a standard action (spell or skill). Does this create the frightened condition?

B) What if the actions are switched? Standard action demoralize, then move action IDoD? Does this create the frightened condition?

C) Full action dazzling display; next round start IDoD. Does this create the frightened condition?

What I'm hoping to achieve to help my party in combat is to create crowd control with a fear effect, with the skills and feats I've chosen. I've considered replacing demoralize with the fear spell. This would start with IDoD, then the fear spell; so opponents would either fail the save and be panicked for multiple rounds, or else receive a 2nd shaken, causing fear for one round. The problem with the fear spell is it's indiscriminant; affecting allies in its cone as well as enemies.

Thoughts?

[FLite]

Since D20pfsrd is a third party site not run by paizo, by definition, the CRB version is correct. If you need further confirmation:

Demoralize wrote:

Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause an opponent to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten an opponent in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you. Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

from the paizo prd.

A) Yes, but expect table variation, some GMs read the last sentance on demoralize that it never creates frightened.

B.) Yes, thats what that feat is for.

C.) Yes.

I really want to get you at a table with my Final Embrace Horror Cruel AoMF Eidolon build... You get them to frightened, I will take them to panicked and add sickened...

[Diego Rossi]

The CRB is the rules of the game, D20PSRD is a third arty site. The CRB is what matter.

PRD wrote:

Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause an opponent to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten an opponent in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you. Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

PRD wrote:

Improved Dirge of Doom

The foreboding tone of your dirge is especially effective at unsettling your enemies.

Prerequisite: Ability to perform dirge of doom.

Benefit: The range of your dirge of doom ability is extended to 60 feet. Additionally, if a creature is shaken from another effect, the effect of your dirge of doom is changed to frightened for that specific creature. This benefit cannot cause a creature to become panicked, even if a target is already frightened from another effect. Once affected by this feat, a creature cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours.

Normal: The range of dirge of doom is 30 feet. A creature that is already shaken cannot become frightened by dirge of doom.

Edit:

I misrread Improved Dirge of Doom

[Casual Viking]

However, the text in the 6th printing CRB does not match 1. printing + accumulated errata. The non-stacking comes from the 1->2 or 2->3 errata, but despite being put in the errata, the change has not actually been implemented in the text, nor has it been reversed.

[Diego Rossi]

Casual Viking wrote:

However, the text in the 6th printing CRB does not match 1. printing + accumulated errata. The non-stacking comes from the 1->2 or 2->3 errata, but despite being put in the errata, the change has not actually been implemented in the text, nor has it been reversed.

PRD wrote:

Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

It seem "not stacking" to me.

Plus "not staking effects from the same source" is a general rule, so I don't see what is your problem.

[Diego Rossi]

Reading Improved Dirge of Doom correctly you first apply IDD, then you apply the shaken condition with another ability and the target become frightened.

Apparently we have 2 rule sin direct contradiction:

Improved Dirge of Doom: you apply shaken to the target, he become frightened

Demoralize: you can't improve the effect to frightened.

Actually Demoralize say: "Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition." but when you use demoralize on a target under the effect of Improved Dirge of Doom you aren't stacking uses of demoralize, you are using it in conjunction with another effect. So nothing bar it from working in the skill description.

For the other ways in which you can impose the shaken conditions you should check them one by one.

I think that it is too easy to get this combo to work, but that is personal taste, not rules.

[Cavall]

I think you want to demoralize first. Intimidate won't make him frightened it's pretty clear. However of he is shaken first, your dirge will then improve that to frightened.

So Intimidate then dirge.

[Casual Viking]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Casual Viking wrote:

However, the text in the 6th printing CRB does not match 1. printing + accumulated errata. The non-stacking comes from the 1->2 or 2->3 errata, but despite being put in the errata, the change has not actually been implemented in the text, nor has it been reversed.

PRD wrote:

Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

It seem "not stacking" to me.

Plus "not staking effects from the same source" is a general rule, so I don't see what is your problem.

But the 2nd printing text, which may or may not be the technically correct text, matches the d20pfsrd.com text; that is, demoralize doesn't stack with any other fear effects.

[Diego Rossi]

I think you are calling "non-stacking" something that is
different from that.
The rules say that Demoralize don't stack with itself.

And they say that fear effect stack:

PRD wrote:

Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.

You speak of "However, the text in the 6th printing CRB does not match 1. printing + accumulated errata." The errata are the corrections to the printed text of the book, so it impossible to have an errata that isn't included in the text of the CRB.

Maybe you mean a FAQ, but I haven't found a FAQ that say that demoralize can't be stacked with a different source.

From what I was able to verify, this text was modified with the 4th printing:

CRB errata 3rd to 6th printing wrote:

• Page 99—In the Intimidate skill check description,
in the Demoralize paragraph, in the first sentence,
change “your opponents” to “an opponent.” In the last
sentence, change “threaten opponents in this way if
they are within 30 feet” to “threaten an opponent this
way if it is within 30 feet.” Add the following sentence
to the end of the paragraph:
Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the
duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition

[Casual Viking]

Damn, the errata I was referring to is gone. There used to be a first to second, second to third etc. chain of documents.

The new errata have the clause about demoralize not stacking with demoralize, and Fear Stacking just got a lot easier.

[Valkir]

Thank you to all who have read, and contributed your points of view, quotes, and references.