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This came up in a game I am running and in my mind, a pinned character should be able to bite his opponent if his head can reach any part of the pinner.
the rules on the Pinned states
A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. A pinned creature cannot move and is denied its Dexterity bonus. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class. A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check. A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell. Pinned is a more severe version of grappled, and their effects do not stack.
If you look at this, it is saying a pinned creature can't use his arms.
On this thread it talks about how a dragon could still use it's breath attack, which is a supernatural ability, while pinned.
On this one it talks about the pinner being able to bite an opponent.
here is another thread that talks about the difference between pinned and helpless.
So the question is, can a creature make an attack, without aid from his arms, while pinned. Be that attack a breath attack, a bite attack or another form of attack that doesn't require the pinned person to use his arms?
Breathing fire seems pretty physical to me. And IRL, when you Pin someone, you often have control of their head. If I were Pinning a Dragon or Gorgon, I would make a point of controlling their head! I'd be grumpy with the GM if I got attacked by a Breath Weapon from someone I was Pinning.
I think the idea is that the breath weapon can trigger no matter what, and aiming it isn't required because the dragon is immune to it...
It's not a laser beam.
The Greens, for example, can make a CLOUD of acid (Miasma, at Ancient category), so they basically just clench their teeth and spray acid everywhere if they are pinned...
It doesn't have to be pointed at you.
Biting, on the other hand, has to use a much more precise targeting style that is neutralized by being pinned. You can't spray teeth at people, you gotta get a grip on them and chomp.
That's how I rationalize being able to use breath weapons but not bite.
The description doesn't include an arm-use clause. It's very clear on what actions are allowed: Escape Artist checks, CMB to escape, and Verbal and Mental actions. A Bite is certainly not any of these, and neither is a Breath Weapon attack. Just because a breath weapon comes out of the mouth doesn't make it a verbal action. It likely requires lots of diaphragm work, as well as plenty of leverage. A verbal action would include speaking, casting a spell with only verbal components, or activating a magic item with a command word.
A pinned creature is considered helpless, and a helpless creature should NOT be allowed to breath fire.
The description doesn't include an arm-use clause. It's very clear on what actions are allowed: Escape Artist checks, CMB to escape, and Verbal and Mental actions. A Bite is certainly not any of these, and neither is a Breath Weapon attack. Just because a breath weapon comes out of the mouth doesn't make it a verbal action. It likely requires lots of diaphragm work, as well as plenty of leverage. A verbal action would include speaking, casting a spell with only verbal components, or activating a magic item with a command word.
A pinned creature is considered helpless, and a helpless creature should NOT be allowed to breath fire.
in the RAW, it doesn't even prevent attacks. A verbal action is talking. Talking revolves around one's movement of their mouth. Their mouth is use to bite, so a bite attack should be allowed.
That isn't true, they aren't helpless, and pinning doesn't stop Ex or Su abilities, it doesn't even stop spellcasting.The description doesn't include an arm-use clause. It's very clear on what actions are allowed: Escape Artist checks, CMB to escape, and Verbal and Mental actions. A Bite is certainly not any of these, and neither is a Breath Weapon attack. Just because a breath weapon comes out of the mouth doesn't make it a verbal action. It likely requires lots of diaphragm work, as well as plenty of leverage. A verbal action would include speaking, casting a spell with only verbal components, or activating a magic item with a command word.
A pinned creature is considered helpless, and a helpless creature should NOT be allowed to breath fire.
Agreed, my bad. I suppose Breath Weapon isn't as clear-cut as I thought, being a Supernatural Ability and all.
@GM Amsheagar: Short of someone sticking their hand in your mouth, biting requires you to use you neck (and really, putting your weight into it, too) to actually reach out and connect. Pinned is going to look different for different kinds of creatures, but the end result is always the same: the pinned creature can ONLY take verbal and mental actions, or roll Escape Artist or CMB to break the pinned condition. A Bite attack has never been considered a verbal action - it's an attack action, which isn't covered in the very specific list of allowed actions.