Help!
I'm really struggling to make character that is interesting to play from day one (lvl 1) We have quite a slow progress game with lots of new people in the game, and a beginner GM. I my self have played different systems ,and versions of dd in the past.
What I've found that the system is more restrictive than what I recalled. For example I've used to being able to do all the feat locked combat maneuver stuff without having to "unlock" each damn one. So playing a warrior feels more like you either specialize on one maneuver or suck donkey balls doing it.
Archetypes seem to help with the fluff problem abit, but most of the more interesting stuff takes way too much time to actually kick off.
Would like to have an adaptable melee warrior guy with maybe some spellcasting potential. So far the best I've encountered seems to be Battle oracle that actually can change the feats on the fly.
The team it self has no active (or thoughtful) warrior types. So I was thinking of some sort of bodyguard - style character.
We currently have Core, APG.UC, UM, ARG and 20pt buy. I also have access to large size orc, but I feel that could be a game breaker.
This is more of a brainstorming thread really. Any fun and adaptable builds from level 1 are welcome...
It's not a build, but what about an Alchemist? They can't change their feats "on the fly", but they can throw bombs, or buff up and enter melee, or play at being a caster with their Extract. And since Extracts only take a minute to prepare, you can remain pretty flexible with those too.
For example I've used to being able to do all the feat locked combat maneuver stuff without having to "unlock" each damn one. So playing a warrior feels more like you either specialize on one maneuver or suck donkey balls doing it.
You can use all the Core and APG maneuvers from the beginning, no feats required. Usually they will result in an attack of opportunity, but with good armor / reach weapon / provoking AOO anyway etc. that's less of an issue.
Would like to have an adaptable melee warrior guy with maybe some spellcasting potential. So far the best I've encountered seems to be Battle oracle that actually can change the feats on the fly.
From what I am reading, battle oracle is a good choice. I don't see the option to change feats on the fly though - you mean martial flexibility of the brawler class, from ACG?
We currently have Core, APG.UC, UM, ARG and 20pt buy. I also have access to large size orc, but I feel that could be a game breaker.
With beginners in the group, I wouldn't go for such a powerful option. Large suffers from -1 attack bonus and armor class, but the increased reach offsets that easily. If you stick with battle oracle, you will get Enlarge Person anyway.
For example I've used to being able to do all the feat locked combat maneuver stuff without having to "unlock" each damn one. So playing a warrior feels more like you either specialize on one maneuver or suck donkey balls doing it.You can use all the Core and APG maneuvers from the beginning, no feats required. Usually they will result in an attack of opportunity, but with good armor / reach weapon / provoking AOO anyway etc. that's less of an issue.
+1. Reach is definitely your friend. You can provoke AoOs all you and, unless they have Reach as well, you get away with your attack for free. It's particularly useful for Tripping guys running by you, and Sundering ranged weapons.
Just remember to have a Gauntlet, Armour Spikes, or the Improved Unarmed Feat so you can deal with enemies go get in on you. Consider the Combat Reflexes Feat as well.
But, you are right: Focusing on ONE Maneuver and getting all the Feats associated with it will be WAY more useful as it eliminates the AoO and makes the maneuver viable at later levels. Too bad there's such a Feat Tax involved in specializing. :(
EDIT: Just remember to have high STR and DEX values, and stick to a Full BAB class if you want to be any good at Maneuvers. I've had a disappointing time with my Battle Cleric of Zon-Kuthon. :P
:Grimlock
Yea was thinking of martial flex. But hmm, that reach thing would be interesting. Could probably make the life of our castes more enjoyable when the rest of the warriors are just running after lone goblin x)
Also reading about alchemist now, didnt know they were part of d8 club. And seem to be offering somewhat interesting gameplay. Need to read more. Vivisec looks nice.
How about just going sohei forexample to get imp unarmed and reach weapon. They even get a bonus feat which opens options as well. I was toying with a weaponadept/maneuvermaster before, pity you cant use decent weapons with weapon adept.
Edit: damn sohei just kicks in @ lvl 6
edit edit: Why isn't martial flex a fighter default skill...sheehs.
If you want to focus on direct protection, there are a few feats for that:
Saving Shield
Bodyguard (requires Combat Reflexes)
In Harm's Way (requires Bodyguard)
Combat Patrol (requires base attack bonus 5, so at least level 5)
It's weaker than simply destroying your enemies, but since it's a newbie group, I'd gladly take the chance to play something unusual.
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There is a feat in the Dirty Tactics Toolbox that is great for anyone wanting to use a lot of different maneuvers, Dirty Fighting. It allows you to use any maneuver without provoking if you are flanking, and if you already have the improved version of the maneuver it gives you a +4 bonus when flanking. It also counts has having Int 13, Dex 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed Strike for the purpose of qualifying for improved maneuver feats or feats that have improved maneuvers as prerequisites.
If you want to focus on direct protection, there are a few feats for that:
Saving Shield
Bodyguard (requires Combat Reflexes)
In Harm's Way (requires Bodyguard)
Combat Patrol (requires base attack bonus 5, so at least level 5)It's weaker than simply destroying your enemies, but since it's a newbie group, I'd gladly take the chance to play something unusual.
Yea - dont want to be an ass and go with a maxstrpwrattack2hlargeweapon-route. Currently playing a fey sorceress which Ok. But our warrior is easily confused so I spend most of my spells to keep my self alive than really getting to work my mojo. Hence I need someone with abit more beef and means to make it more fun for the other casters.
There is a feat in the Dirty Tactics Toolbox that is great for anyone wanting to use a lot of different maneuvers, Dirty Fighting. It allows you to use any maneuver without provoking if you are flanking, and if you already have the improved version of the maneuver it gives you a +4 bonus when flanking. It also counts has having Int 13, Dex 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed Strike for the purpose of qualifying for improved maneuver feats or feats that have improved maneuvers as prerequisites.
I'll have to ask if I may use this, looks like a nifty feat to open up other options than just reduce hitpoints to 0.
Phalanx warrior with the bodyguard stuff and combat patrol seems like fun. Pity they get their flavour ability kicks in at lvl 3 so no reach untill that, with shield. Also losing the armortraining would hurt combat reflexes?
Armor's max dex bonus only applies to the AC bonus from dex. It will not effect initiative or the number of AoOs you can make with combat reflexes. Losing access to Armor Training is not that big of a loss, when you can get the same benefit from mithral armor.
Hmm, that does not indeed sound that bad. So something like this:
Human Phalanx SoldierSTR: 18 DEX: 16 CON: 15 INT: 7 WIS: 11 CHA: 7
Combat reflexes
Bodyguard
(+dirtyfighter/toughness/Dodge (for combat patrol)/(something else))
I wouldn't dump Int that far, 1 skill point per level (well, two since you're human) is really painful.
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Sadly because of your Limited books it will be hard to pull off exactly what you are wanting. A brawler is very flexible and sadly your missing it as an option. (Perhaps ask your DM...its a pure martial class and those are in no way broken or "OP" as many new players think of some of the classes out there.
You also missing the book for Dirty Fighting Feat.
The best I could think is perhaps a Magus using a whip and true strike to do reach based Tripping and Disarming. I know I enjoyed playing one but Some of the feats I used are not in the books your using (they are from newer books) or they have been errata'ed slightly since the first printing.
Would like to have an adaptable melee warrior guy with maybe some spellcasting potential. So far the best I've encountered seems to be Battle oracle that actually can change the feats on the fly.
Magus is my first recommendation. You can do some pretty neat stuff starting from level 1 and it only gets stronger from there. The whip is a good idea if you want to have reach, but keep in mind that you'll need Whip Mastery to be able to do lethal damage with it (it's in Ultimate Combat).
Warpriest would be a good one, too, but that's not in the books available to you. You could ask your GM, though.
Here are some of my favorite martial builds using the books you mentioned (all of these are solid from level 1 on):
Buff-focused Magus: casting a buff spell and attacking in the same round is really, really nice. If wands are readily available, I like the wand wielder archetype.
Zen Archer Monk: can't say enough good things about this archetype. All the necessary archery feats are front-loaded. You can exit this class at level 6 (level 7 if you can get Monk's Robes) and be a full-grown, darned effective archer. (This archetype lets you pretty much play Legolas: high mobility, lots of acrobatics, stupid effective with a bow, high saves, etc.)
Tetori Monk: even halfling tetoris can make the GM cry, so take care with this one. (Actually halfling tetoris are probably the worst, from that +1 to CMD against grapple favored class bonus; my 8th level is rocking a +45 CMD vs grapple with no buffs up...)
Honor Guard Cavalier: if you want a bodyguard build, this is it. Order of Dragon will make your aid another bonuses increase, too. This is great start for a Battle Herald, if you want to go that route.
Semi-martial builds I like:
Mindchemist Alchemist: If you don't have anyone with Bardic Knowledge in the party, this archetype is awesome. Double your Int modifier on all knowledge skills? Yes, please! A dip into Dawnflower Dervish bard will get you all your knowledges as class skills and give you Dex to Damage with a scimitar if you happen to run out of bombs or get into melee.
I wouldn't dump Int that far, 1 skill point per level (well, two since you're human) is really painful.
Wouldn't a fighter or warrior with Int 8 or 9 already be at the minimum possible skill ranks per level?
Honor Guard Cavalier: if you want a bodyguard build, this is it. Order of Dragon will make your aid another bonuses increase, too. This is great start for a Battle Herald, if you want to go that route.
How mount dependent is this build? Havent been looking at cavalier mainly due to dependancy on a mount.
Dont want to make a magus to compete with already sensitive guy, lol.
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Honor Guard Cavalier: if you want a bodyguard build, this is it. Order of Dragon will make your aid another bonuses increase, too. This is great start for a Battle Herald, if you want to go that route.
How mount dependent is this build? Havent been looking at cavalier mainly due to dependancy on a mount.
Dont want to make a magus to compete with already sensitive guy, lol.
How mount dependent depends on your feat selection...you can make a Cav that pretty much does nothing with his mount but use it as a pack mule.
How mount dependent depends on your feat selection...you can make a Cav that pretty much does nothing with his mount but use it as a pack mule.
Thought the class was mostly based around their mount. But yea, getting some nice knight vibes right now. I wonder if I could dive abit to the mountside. Are there any essential mount combat feats?
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I wouldn't dump Int that far, 1 skill point per level (well, two since you're human) is really painful.Wouldn't a fighter or warrior with Int 8 or 9 already be at the minimum possible skill ranks per level?
Yes. The moment you go to 9 Int with a fighter, you might as well drop to 7. It's one of the reason's I dislike 2 skill points on any class that isn't a Int based caster, or pseudo caster.
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Thought the class was mostly based around their mount. But yea, getting some nice knight vibes right now. I wonder if I could dive abit to the mountside. Are there any essential mount combat feats?
How mount dependent depends on your feat selection...you can make a Cav that pretty much does nothing with his mount but use it as a pack mule.
the Main 3 are:
Mounted Combat>Ride-by-attack>Spirited ChargeOn and Off the Mount you have:
Power Attack, Risky Striker (Halfling Only), Big Game Hunter (good levels 8+ usually)
More mounted options:
Wheeling Charge (Amazing), Horn of the Cyrosphinx, and Undersized Mount (For humans wanting a Medium mount for fitting in more places...tho I prefer just being a Halfling), Improved Critical Lance + Oil of Bless
My Avatar is a Mounted Halfling Ranger build and is Built to stay on his mount 24/7. He does it very well riding a Giant Gecko and climbing/charging on walls, Charging along 10ft-15ft ceilings, and doing scouting in hard to reach places. Just click on him and you can get an idea for what feats are needed.
You want
- martial power
- some casting
- the potential to bodyguard
I'm seeing that as 2 different characters. In order to be any good on the front lines you kind of need to ignore defense. If you want to be good at bodyguarding there's a feat-intensive chain to go down.
What if you took an animal companion?
Druid gives you a full AC. The animal takes Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard, and other feats to make it a passable bodyguard/mobile defense. You use 3/4 BAB and spells as well as Shape Changing to unleash damage. Everybody wins.
Other builds to do similar things:
- Hunter: more utility, less spells
- Warpriest with the Divine Commander archetype: less spells, more martial
- Inquisitor with the Sacred Huntmaster archetype: a lot of out-of-combat and in-combat utility powers and debuffs like Intimidate, Monster Lore, etc
Another way to go... an arcane caster. Get yourself a familiar and give it an archetype. Support the familiar through spells as well as buffing your friends and conjuring more aid as needed.
Summoner does the same, only better with conjuring obviously.
Finally there are archetypes for many martials that get a familiar or a mount, but no spells. There's the vanilla ranger; spells and animal companion later in their career for similar build but you have to wait four levels.