As the title says, I will post my situation and what I think the result is.
Level 12 Abyssal Bloodrager (Rageshaper) with Strongjaw spell
Claws Base 1d8 then Enlarge Person to 2d6 then Strongjaw to 3d6 then Bestial Aspect (Rageshaper) 3d8???
It looks to me like your base Claw Damage is 1d6. Enlarge Person bumps you up to 1d8, but then Strong Jaw bumps you up 2 size catagories, so not 2d6 but 3d6 (Your 2 wrongs DO make a right!). Bestial Aspect says it adds a Die, so 4d6. I believe by level 12 your claws can be Flaming or something, so 5d6 if you count that.
That's how it looks to me.
It seems to me by level 12, you should be able to do better than Enlarge Person. Cast Monstrous Physique I on yourself to become a 4 armed Sahaugin so you have 4 claws instead of 2, at least. Then maybe Enlarge yourself.
Base 1d8 (it levels up, Scott). 2d8 with Bestial Aspect. Then take that through 3 size increases.
Casual Viking wrote: Base 1d8 (it levels up, Scott). Does it?
Core Rulebook, Sorcerer, Abyssal Bloodline wrote: Claws (Su): At 1st level, you can grow claws as a free action. These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack action using your full base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d4 points of damage each (1d3 if you are Small) plus your Strength modifier. At 5th level, these claws are considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR. At 7th level, the damage increases by one step to 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if you are Small). At 11th level, these claws become flaming weapons, each dealing an additional 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. You can use your claws for a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. I bolded the relevant parts where I see the base damage leveling up. I get 1d6 base damage +1d6 Flaming. What did I miss?
Yes, it does. Bloodrager, not sorcerer.
Advanced Class Guide, Bloodrager, Abyssal Bloodline wrote: At 1st level, you grow claws while bloodraging. These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack, using your full base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d6 points of damage each (1d4 if you are Small) plus your Strength modifier. At 4th level, these claws are considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage resistance. At 8th level, the damage increases to 1d8 points (1d6 if you are Small). At 12th level, these claws become flaming weapons, which deal an additional 1d6 points of fire damage on a hit.
Avoron wrote: Yes, it does. Bloodrager, not sorcerer.
Advanced Class Guide, Bloodrager, Abyssal Bloodline wrote: At 1st level, you grow claws while bloodraging. These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack, using your full base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d6 points of damage each (1d4 if you are Small) plus your Strength modifier. At 4th level, these claws are considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage resistance. At 8th level, the damage increases to 1d8 points (1d6 if you are Small). At 12th level, these claws become flaming weapons, which deal an additional 1d6 points of fire damage on a hit.
Yup, I see it. My mistake.
Grom Kranock wrote: As the title says, I will post my situation and what I think the result is.
Level 12 Abyssal Bloodrager (Rageshaper) with Strongjaw spell
Claws Base 1d8 then Enlarge Person to 2d6 then Strongjaw to 3d6 then Bestial Aspect (Rageshaper) 3d8???
I see 3 problems. I, of course, could be mistaken here, too.
1) How are you getting Strong Jaw? It is a Druid Spell and a Ranger Spell, but not a Sorcerer Spell. A minor problem.
2) The Bestial Aspect Class Ability only works with Polymorph Spells that grant Claws.
Bestial Aspect wrote: At 4th level, whenever a rageshaper gains a natural attack through the use of a polymorph spell, Neither Enlarge Person nor Strong Jaw is a Polymorph.
Enlarge Person wrote: School transmutation; Level Both are Transmutations, but neither is a Polymorph.
Strong Jaw wrote: School transmutation; Level druid 4 3) Even if they were, the Claws aren't. The claws are granted by your Bloodrage Ability, and not through any Polymorph Spell. If you, for instance Polymorphed into a Horse, you could still use your Abyssal Claws even though Horses Don't have Claws. Bestial Aspect won't stack with Abyssal Claws. Bestial Aspect also might not stack with Druid Wild Shape, since that is arguably not a Spell, either.
I can see some workarounds that can help you get toward what you want. For instance, if you cast Monstrous Physique I and turned into a 4 Armed Sahaugin, BA would grant you 2d4 instead of 1d4, and then you could cast Strong Jaw and use Enlarge person, bumping you from 1d4Sahaugin to 1d6 Enlarge to 2d6 Strongjaw to 3d6 Bestial Aspect. And you have 4 Claws.
Arguably, if you have 4 Claws, the Abyssal Claws give you 4 Claws, too. I'm not sure. But Sahaugin also have a Bite Attack. In any event, you could use the Abyssal Claws and apply BA to your Bite Attack. Strong Jaw would stack with both.
There's a clause in the Bestial Aspect ability that applies it to bloodrage powers:
Bestial Aspect wrote: If the rageshaper's bloodrage powers already grant natural attacks or alternate modes of movement, then the bonuses granted by bestial aspect also apply to these bloodrage powers. However, I'm not sure that Bestial Aspect stacks with Strong Jaw:
Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice? wrote: As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).
Avoron wrote: There's a clause in the Bestial Aspect ability that applies it to bloodrage powers: So it does. Learning Curve! I'll get it.
Avoron wrote: However, I'm not sure that Bestial Aspect stacks with Strong Jaw: I was thinking about this after my last post. BA says he gets an extra die. he still gets that extra d8.
So 1d8 Claws Enlarge 2d6, Strong Jaw 4d6 + BA 1d8 + Flaming 1d6.
As to the 4 armed Sahaugin, assuming he doesn't get 4 Abyssal Claws, the Bite and other 2 claws still enjoy Strong Jaw and Enlarge. 1d4->1d6->2d6, so it's still worth doing. And Bestial Aspect will give an extra d6 to the other 2 claws, so they will do 2d6 + 1d4.
He could also bump up other natural attacks with a dip into Warpriest, applying Sacred Weapon Damage to a Bite or something, and with the 3 bumps in size, that would be pretty worthwhile.
Watch out for extreme table variation on a couple of those things.
Polymorph wrote: other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell Demonic Bulk is supernatural, but as it explicitly imitates enlarge person, so I think many GMs would not allow it to function under the same limitations that would prevent enlarge person from working while polymorphed into a Four-Armed Sahaugin.
There has also been some dispute about how Bestial Aspect actually works - see this thread.
Avoron wrote: Watch out for extreme table variation on a couple of those things.
Polymorph wrote: other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell Demonic Bulk is supernatural, but as it explicitly imitates enlarge person, so I think many GMs would not allow it to function under the same limitations that would prevent enlarge person from working while polymorphed into a Four-Armed Sahaugin.
There has also been some dispute about how Bestial Aspect actually works - see this thread.
The wording of that text is frustrating. It suggests that that it was intended to prevent multiple effects that increase size to not stack, which suggests that there should nothing wrong with turning from 1 medium humanoid to another and then Enlarging, but the rule says they don't stack. Grr.
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