99 Weapons I can't use.
Take one down, pass it around.
98 +1 Longswords on the wall!
I'm looking for feedback/roundtable talk on how other Players and DMs handle excess stuff in their game.
DMing, I've worked on the Magic Store policy, where in safe zones outside of dungeons and in metropolises, PCs have access to merchants that can just dump the goods off. It was easy in Sharn, and I imagine places like Absalom. This is usually handled at the end of, or in between sessions where the Players and I get together to hash out sheets and other story stuff that can get in the way of a steamrolling session. Two of my usually inattentive Players actually became very good sheet-keepers and value hunters off the SRD/Hero Lab with this as an incentive.
In a way, I commercialized/affiliated Adventuring. Anything else really falls into DMs just plain denying Players. Example, the Player has accumulated 90k in minerals/currency, what is preventing him from ordering up a Ring of Regeneration? If it's Core, why can't the Genie rip you off bartering for it? At least you have it.
Equipment = Power Level, I understand, but I thought that was the point why they existed, versus wonderful fluff about a Player's wardrobe or knick-knacks.
With how generous the APs are with loot drops, I am thinking that a 4:1 exchange rate in value may be more reasonable. So, in a typical 4-Player array, they can either keep said item or accept the loss for targeted gain at a 1:16 ratio of Treasure Value for their efforts versus having wagons of stuff that you will never see get sold off at "a proper source" like a metropolis/demiplane you are thousands of miles/planes away.
Case in point, I was in a Demiplanar Dungeon (handwaved as Planeshift/Teleport Proof) with no access to civilization and the +1/+2 weapons were stacking up inside the portable hole. Since we were adventuring with the DMNPC, aka Deus Ex Machina-Sue, we dumped out 70k in gear and opted for a rough 4:1 exchange rate to get equipment that we sorely needed, like Armor compatible with a Druid, a weapon the Monk can use, etc. Price gouging to the extreme, but at least we got back some of what we needed to be more competitive in the present. Frankly, it was doubtful if any of the seed characters were going to survive to the "finale" anyways, as we've already had two character deaths from the originals, much as we play defensively.
I don't alter the loot drops because I believe in Paizo enough that it's that way for a reason, but I do believe in the ability to opt out after the fact and just turn in that squad of mooks' equipment for at least somebody to benefit from.
Perhaps none of my Players have abused this system just yet, and I understand that there may be "broken" value-wise items out there, but sometimes DM indifference or bias can be a disservice to the table, particularly when a lot of campaigns aren't played to completion, and all that loot value is lost without ever having been enjoyed.
Heck, I've come up with a variant where one can turn in their +1 Ring of Protection for example, pay the difference between it and a +2 RoP, et voila, there's your upgraded equipment back to you.
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I'm not sure exactly what your asking or trying to get at, but personally the answer for me is the Automatic Bonus progression.
You get the big six as part of leveling up instead of needing to buy it, and those items don't exist in the game world. Everybody get's half wealth by level, which means everything ends up selling for 1/4 list price (instead of half price). In this way, you can wait until you get back to town to sell your loot because you wont "need" any of that since the most essential gear is rolled into level progression.
I'm playing two campaigns using ABP and it's the bees knees.
It's in the 4th line of his post, Claxon:
I'm looking for feedback/roundtable talk on how other Players and DMs handle excess stuff in their game.
To that, I would also suggest the ABP option from Pathfinder Unchained. This cuts down on +1 weapons and such that are "valuable," but so damn common that they just take up space, but it also cuts down on PC wealth, as well as the abundance of magic weapons/armor as well.
Keep in mind that this also limits PC power very heavily until 19th level, since the maximum they can acquire their weapons and armor is +5, and it much more favors specialization than diversification. One thing that would fix this is by using these rules and table here, and only reduce PC WBL by ~25%.
Avoiding that, I'd consider using the magical power of the swords as reagents to infuse other weapons and such. It makes sense; characters spend 2,000 gold to acquire the materials (and crafter) necessary to make the weapon stronger, so we know that the essence of the sword has a value of 1,000 gold. It shouldn't be too difficult to extract that power and apply its sum to a weapon being currently used.
For example, let's say we have 5 +1 Longswords, and I'm using one. If I take the other 4 to a crafter, I don't see why he can't break down the materials used in the 4 +1 Longswords to make my Longsword become a +2 (and then just pay him 4,000 gold for the service; if it's a party member, then you wouldn't even have to pay for the service). The same can be said for items of similar construction, such as Belts/Headbands, Cloaks of Resistance, Rings of Protection, Amulets of Natural Armor/Mighty Fists, etc.
99 longswords? That sounds like enought that you should skip the metropolis entirely, and deal directly with a local lord in order to arm his personal army.
Just saying- DR/Magic is a fairly common DR. Taking them from 'invulnerable monsters' to 'oh, just got to use my sword' would be much appreciated. And I am sure that SOMEONE has problems with incorporeal monsters floating about eating people.
I can appreciate allowing players to be enterprising, but I think there should be limits. A good money sink is to limit their store options- force them to use the money in order to invest in facilities for local crafters, or as bribes to master crafters so they are willing to start taking your orders. Or...y'know...putting money into a permanent portal to hell so you can buy chaotic outsider bane weapons to fight the demon menace. On the upper scale of things.
That way, all items are technically available, and all that huge mass of extraneous loot is useful, but things are not rocketing out of control. Also, it allows them to build up an economic empire while dealing with political maneuvering in order to facilitate their question- again, selling a large number of weapons to the end user, so you don't have to waste percentage going through a middle man. Hell, hire adventuring teams to ship the goods directly.
Have side quests where there are groups targeting your background caravans, and you decide to personally show them why that was the dumbest idea of their miserable little lives.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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At low levels, merchants can just buy stuff. At the mid levels, when they're looking to upgrade magic items, NPC casters can do that if the PCs can't do it themselves. Wealthy NPC organizations, like the Pathfinders, the Prophets of Kalistrade, and many churches, also deal in magic items. And of course there are the big metropolitan markets. At upper levels, you have planar merchants like mercanes. You will also have specialty houses that deal in high value treasures/magic; think Sotheby's or a Bugatti dealer.
Thanks y'all. Pardon the wall of text.
To that, I would also suggest the ABP option from Pathfinder Unchained. This cuts down on +1 weapons and such that are "valuable," but so damn common that they just take up space, but it also cuts down on PC wealth, as well as the abundance of magic weapons/armor as well.
I'll look up ABP and see how it works and how I can apply it to my homebrews and APs both. It really got frustrating watching a table get DM-Fiated their equipment and thus be beholden to a Deus Ex Machina for hands-off development. Unchained really changes a lot of how the game works... is it fair to say that it would've been Pathfinder 2.0 or the most serious evolution of their 3.5 development?
Fluff-wise, I was using the Adventurers' parent organization such as the Pathfinder or analogs in other adventures to facilitate the liquidation. That, and a planar merchant as was suggested, usually a Genie or some Axiomatic entity. As in one they encountered and hopefully had reached amicable terms with.
99 longswords? That sounds like enought that you should skip the metropolis entirely, and deal directly with a local lord in order to arm his personal army.
Funny that you said that; we usually end up outfitting a friendly/allied group of NPCs with the +1s/Masterwork swag that drops, and up to +2 Armor and excess minor rings because those stack up quick in the inventory. In return they gain in-game NPC allies that I advise them not to endanger unless they feel like taking the campaign down a darker path (can't stop em, just advise lol). More than one adventurer has retired to this accidental Adventureland we end up starting up in the middle of nowhere from a group of initially beleaguered homesteaders/townsfolk.
Last time we pulled this off was with the "Knights of Westcrown" organization in Council of Thieves. Boy were we pleased with the redemption tract that we ended up going on besides helping raise a full set of CRB-class adventurers from the NPC seed ideas along with the redeemed entities like the Forlorn Soul and the Tiefling seneschal. That actress got pulled into as a love interest of one of my Players... and he spent a good 100k of value outfitting her. Mrs. Calseinica nee Nymmis has yet to see a single round of combat lol -he just wants her safe.
I can appreciate allowing players to be enterprising, but I think there should be limits. A good money sink is to limit their store options- force them to use the money in order to invest in facilities for local crafters, or as bribes to master crafters so they are willing to start taking your orders. Or...y'know...putting money into a permanent portal to hell so you can buy chaotic outsider bane weapons to fight the demon menace. On the upper scale of things.
It's been a minute since I ran into Player abuse deliberately aimed at escalating the party capabilities beyond what I can handle, because truthfully, at a certain point, I have to accept that they will have access to Planeshift and Teleport. All I ask is they run the item buy through me so I can maintain awareness and ensure no one is "accidentally" adding up bonuses that exceeds value spent. I tend to trust Players until I either get a bad feeling or catch them in the act. Munchkins I reach an understanding with for the most part, and the Casuals I advise as necessary to make sure they are getting what they paid for in-character.
I do like this Invest-in-the-Infrastructure angle y'all are desrcribing. Adds another layer to their support system of allied friends/communities.
@CharlieBell: Yep, sounds like we have similar systems ^_^. Mine is more of the Company Store variety.