Hot hand rolling stats...Now what?


Advice


I'm having an issue in a home campaign. I've got a 1/2 Orc Bard with a solid chassis, but I'm stretched pretty thin.
Stat generation method was roll 4d6, drop the lowest, assign in any order. I got:

Str 16 +2 racial
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 9
Cha 16

So, I'm pretty pleased; I should be able to make basically anything. I could even have chosen to play a Monk! (Core APG and Unchained books are what's allowed) However, the other 3 players are:
1) Switch hitter Ranger
2) Unchained Rogue
3) Cavalier (although this will be switched to Paladin)

So, being the last one to join, I figured that I'd just fill in where ever needed...However, it seems like there is quite a bit that is needed. That Paladin switch might help out in the healing dept. later on, but right now it's just me and my 2 spells per day (I took CLW and Grease). I didn't really know what else to do, so I just grabbed Combat Reflexes as my feat, and now we're off!
I just feel like this character is trying to cover too many bases at once. He's got a great stat array, but I feel like he's the weakest character at the table. I'm pretty sure that I can get him changed up for next session, but what do I change him into? Or is he actually solid, and I'll see major improvement once we get some gold? Where do I go from here?

Silver Crusade

You're probably playing the weakest direct combat class, but considering you've got 3 melee monsters there, your inspire courage is going to help DESTROY encounters. Play up the support role, grease under foes to make hitting easier, start off battles with song, and watch as your team destroys anything that can't fly.

Personally I think you're going to see improvements as you level up, since your spell selection will only get better, as well as your ability to help your party crush everything with a pulse.


Bard has an archetype that gets channel energy.


Nothing wrong with a Bard - I've got one in a home game myself who's fun to play and contributes in a lot of ways - but you might think about a full caster instead. Your group has a pretty strong combat component. Either the Paladin or Ranger could use a CLW wand, assuming they're available. But as you note, there's not much a Bard can do in terms of spells. A wizard or sorcerer could help that a lot. Scribe Scroll can get you a heck of a utility kit. If your GM allows crafting, you can do wonders to equip the party. With those numbers it would be easy to multiclass divine and arcane casting and go for Mystic Theurge and have ALL THE SPELLS.


I would drop combat reflexes and go archery. You are going to be a round or two before you get into combat anyway, and having to move once you are done performing and casting will make it difficult to do much damage.

Your group really needs to be focused on getting the enemy down quickly (which you have the DPR do handle) and then healing out of combat with wands. CLW should only be used to stabilize someone who is going to die without it.

Generally speaking though, I would want any group I am in to have at least 1 9-level caster or several 6-level. If you aren't totally set on the bard I might switch out for an evangelist cleric with a reach build. Swap the WIS and DEX and you are pretty good to go with stats. You would still focus on out-of-combat healing mostly, but you would be able to mix in some support and some battlefield control which otherwise your party lacks as well as a lot more of the 'utility' magic that will be needed from time to time.

Another bonus to this, is that between the rogue and the ranger skills should be fairly well covered. Another skill monkey like the bard and you are likely to be stepping on each others toes. Cleric would let each character shine more in their own areas of expertise.


Something to take into account, I doubt the ranger will actually stay a switch hitter. Eventually (around level 6) the player is going to realize that using a bow is SO much more effective than their sword, they'll just stop using the sword altogether. I say 6th level because that's when they can pick up Point Blank Master and not provoke anymore.


Hey, everyone. Thanks you all for the quick responses!

@ N. Jolly
That's kind of what I thought initially. Inspire Courage is pretty straightforward; throw in a couple of additional buffs and I can get a Ron Popeil endorsement.

@ Azten
Which archetype is that? It sounds pretty good, but of course, it makes me wonder what the tradeoff is... If it's from one of the more recent books, the GM will likely be unfamiliar with it, and we're kind of limited in books, as both the Ranger and the Rogue players are brand-new to Pathfinder. But it certainly doesn't hurt to ask ;)

@ Smallfoot
Yeah, I have no real clue what the availability of magical gear will be. I'm considering taking some crafting feats, just so that I will be absolutely sure that everyone will have access to the essentials. Of course, this is a down-the-line prospect.

@ Dave Justus
While I know that archery is considered to be one of the more powerful approaches to combat, it's also very feat intensive. I'm not quite sold on the viability of becoming a competent archer. If there is a way to make it work, it certainly has appeal.
I'm totally with you on the whole in-combat-healing-is-a-waste-of-time thing. So, what does the cleric do for battlefield control? What would his plan of action be at low levels (specifically 1 and 2)?

@ Jodokai
Oh, I'm sure that he'll focus primarily on archery. I think that Power Attack and a Greatsword will be the extent of his switch-hitting. Of course, I have no idea how long it takes to level up in this campaign (I'm used to PFS, where it's super easy to see where you should be at any given point)


My advice is tat if you are going to be a bard you will need a great bag of wands and scrolls because you don't have a full caster. With a paladin you can cover some problems but if he doesn't swap over your in real trouble with negative levels and status effects.


There's nothing wrong with the Bard build posted, especially with a Melee-heavy party.

You have the totally legit options of:

1) Picking up a Longspear, Power Attack and being a second-line combatant and primary buffer. Maybe use a Banner of the Ancient Kings and Flagbearer feat later on. Simple, effective, and your party will love you.

2) Switching up a bit and focusing toward Control/Casting. You'll likely be the only one with battlefield control casting options, so going first (Improved Initiative) and upping the power of your disabling spells is the priority. Grease is a great spell. Sleep is another encounter-ending spell at low level, and one to trade out as you level up.

Both have their pros and cons. Option 1 is arguably more powerful with your setup, but option 2 may be more necessary give the lack of other control options.


galahad2112 wrote:


@ Dave Justus
While I know that archery is considered to be one of the more powerful approaches to combat, it's also very feat intensive. I'm not quite sold on the viability of becoming a competent archer. If there is a way to make it work, it certainly has appeal.
I'm totally with you on the whole in-combat-healing-is-a-waste-of-time thing. So, what does the cleric do for battlefield control? What would his plan of action be at low levels (specifically 1 and 2)?

It is unlikely you will become a DPR machine as an archer bard in comparison to other archers, but I don't think that is the goal. Since you are really the only spell caster in the group though, you really have the jobs of support and battlefield control (absent some special melee builds that can take over one or the other of those.) That means in most cases you will be spending a round or two doing your main job, and if the fight is still going on then you will get do you 'hobby' of shooting arrows at foes that are nearly dead anyway. In addition, since you will be the one character that is likely irreplaceable, having the most magic, keeping yourself out of harms way is fairly important.

Honestly, level 1 and 2 you probably won't need a whole lot of battlefield control. Your group will probably be taking out bad guys with a single hit and you will end up buffing rather than controlling. However, Command, Murderous Command and Forbid action are all pretty decent spells for limiting a single opponents attack. Summon Monster is as viable for clerics as anyone else, and can set up flanking for your rogue as well as blocking charge line and delaying bad guys. Domain choice can greatly effect your ability to control the battlefield as well. Your biggest issue, is that with spells you can for the most part only do one thing on any given round, if you are controlling you can't support and vice verse. Still having the capability to do either opens up possibilities.


Arcane Healer gives up Versatile Performance and Loremaster for Channel Energy and the ability to turn bardic performance rounds into Cure spells.


Just hit Lv.2 tonight, went with the Arcane Healer archetype. So far, so good...Thanks for the help!

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