Pain / Sadist / Masochist Concept

[RaizielDragon]

I have a rough idea for a character that is very brutish (probably Barbarian, maybe Str-Monk/Brawler) that focuses on giving as much pain (damage) as well as receiving it. So I'm wondering if there is a build (or just a class, feat, whatever) that flourishes as more damage is received? I'm thinking either Orc or Half-Orc with Deathless Initiate might be ok, though it seems a precarious place to try and stay. A Were-Boar might also be somewhat fitting.

I think there's also a feat that makes you deal extra damage but also deal damage to yourself too, but can't remember what it is. Might be a magical enhancement that I'm thinking of though.

A sub-theme of the character, if there's room, would also be that he is an agent of pure-chaos; will probably be CN alignment. I don't know if there are any feats/items/classes to support this as well. I seem to recall an old magic item that was basically a cloak of chaos, but don't remember much else about it, but that inspired me to make a character based on spreading chaos, just like there are characters that spread Good or Law(ful).

Anyway, any ideas for such a character?

[Slithery D]

Occult Mysteries had the agonizing obedience feat and the pain taster prestige class, that's probably what you want.

[Imbicatus]

Chaos is not a requirement for sadism or masochism. Look at Zon-Kuthon for some of the best examples of both extremes, and that is centered in Lawful teachings. Lawful Evil, of course, but still Lawful.

Kuthie Feats: Bloodletting, Cruelty, and Flagellant.

[Saldiven]

You'll probably want to eventually get the Vicious weapon quality (extra 2d6 to your enemy when you hit, but you take d6 yourself). It's fluffy for your concept.

[RaizielDragon]

I wasn't implying that there was a link between Chaos and sadism/masochism. It was just an additional idea for the character I had. It may warrant it's own separate build though.

Agonizing Obedience looks nicely flavorful. I like Flensing. Pain Taster looks ok, but probably only as a 1 level dip. The rest of the abilities don't really seem worth it. I like Cruelty and Flagellant. Bloodletting, not so much; though it is flavorful for the build, I don't normally care for abilities that only work on criticals unless it's a build dedicated to getting criticals often and abusing them.

And yes, Vicious was what I was thinking of.

[Saldiven]

Cruelty is a cool feat for Zon-Kuthon worshippers, but the only really consistent way to trigger it is with Intimidation (Demoralize) since that counts as a Fear effect. That would require building towards that skill to make it effective.

[Imbicatus]

Saldiven wrote:

Cruelty is a cool feat for Zon-Kuthon worshippers, but the only really consistent way to trigger it is with Intimidation (Demoralize) since that counts as a Fear effect. That would require building towards that skill to make it effective.

Using Unarmed Strikes (or Ascetic Style) with Belier's Bite is much more consistent than intimidation.

[Saldiven]

Imbicatus wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

Cruelty is a cool feat for Zon-Kuthon worshippers, but the only really consistent way to trigger it is with Intimidation (Demoralize) since that counts as a Fear effect. That would require building towards that skill to make it effective.

Using Unarmed Strikes (or Ascetic Style) with Belier's Bite is much more consistent than intimidation.

If he does decide to go Brawler, that would be a good idea. I was thinking more along the lines of the Barbarian, especially as a half-orc with the bonuses and Feats they get towards Intimidate.

[GM_Beernorg]

Intimidating Prowess would help allot for said Intimidate stacking.

[SheepishEidolon]

RaizielDragon wrote:

I think there's also a feat that makes you deal extra damage but also deal damage to yourself too, but can't remember what it is.

It could be All-Consuming Swing, allowing you to apply Vital Strike (normal / improved / greater) to Cleave's initial target, but also suffer the bonus damage yourself.

[RaizielDragon]

I was imagining this as an unarmed and probably unarmored build, so Brawler would be fitting with my initial vision of the character. I really like Brawlers, especially Mutagenic Maulers, and I could flavor the Mutagen as a "rage". A natural attack build wouldn't be unwelcome either, making the character a crazed, clawing, biting, maniac.

[Saldiven]

RaizielDragon wrote:

I was imagining this as an unarmed and probably unarmored build, so Brawler would be fitting with my initial vision of the character. I really like Brawlers, especially Mutagenic Maulers, and I could flavor the Mutagen as a "rage". A natural attack build wouldn't be unwelcome either, making the character a crazed, clawing, biting, maniac.

I don't believe that natural attacks would work with Belier's Bite, though, since that Feat specifies that it works with unarmed attacks (they are actually different things). I know they changed Feral Combat Training, but maybe FCT would allow the two to combine? I'm too busy to look it up right now.

[Imbicatus]

The Feral Combat Training errata removed the "effects that enhance an unarmed strike" line so Belier's Bite would no longer work with it. However, Ascetic Style (a new weapon style feat in Weapon Master Handbook) has that line, so it would work with any monk weapon while using the style. If you really wanted to use it with a bite, you could worship Aspu or Dahak, take Ascetic Style, and Crusader's Flurry for you bite, and use Ascetic Style with you bite that way.

[RaizielDragon]

I'm not set on natural weapons either. I was just saying that I'm most open to unarmed and/or natural weapons, so the build could use either, depending on what ends up being the best for the build. I mainly mentioned natural attacks, because if I do go Barbarian, I know that pouncing with a bunch of natural attacks is a viable build for that class, whereas being a barbarian and being unarmed is kind of sub-par.

[Kaptin Skullsmasha]

How about a Kyton bloodline Bloodrager? Gets most of the barbarian goodies and a bunch of pain based abilities.

[Lemmy]

Play a Kineticist follower of Zon-Kutton and put ranks in Heal.

[CheezWizrd]

I agree that the Lawful ethos is more in keeping with sadomasochism, but it's hardly a necessity.
Kytons (Cenobites, by any other name) are the archetypal sadomasochists of the d20 universe; Tieflings have access to a Kyton bloodline, which grants +'s to Con and Cha, and -'s to Wis - fairly interesting bonuses to start a concept with.
Or use the Holy Vindicator Prestige Class; it doesn't have an alignment restriction. So, a Lawful Neutral character with extensive Negative Channeling could become a powerful 'Unholy Vindicator'.
Be a priest/priestess of Calistria. Add a Conductive whip, and Channel smite people silly while you manifest wounds on your body that echo the ones you're dishing out...
Add the Vicious weapon property to make it even more painful.