Headfirst
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A barbarian with a +20 to grapple CMB roll a 18 and still only gives a +2 to the sorcerer to escape a grapple. It is pointless.
Correct, but that's the most inefficient way to use aid another in battle. Reverse the situation and it makes much more sense: Even a sorcerer with only a 6 Strength grants a +2 bonus on his barbarian friend's grapple check. It's not so pointless if it helps him lock down a threatening enemy, especially if the sorcerer is trying to conserve spells, is in an antimagic field, or is up against a creature with high spell resistance and/or energy immunities he can't overcome.
In the above example of my helpful halfling bard, at 1st level, granting the party's melee beatstick barbarian a +6 on his attack roll is much, much more effective than any attack he could muster (his small rapier does 1d4-1 damage, compared to increasing the odds of the barbarian hitting with his 2d6+11 raging, power-attacking greatsword).
| Nicos |
Nicos wrote:A barbarian with a +20 to grapple CMB roll a 18 and still only gives a +2 to the sorcerer to escape a grapple. It is pointless.Correct, but that's the most inefficient way to use aid another in battle. Reverse the situation and it makes much more sense: Even a sorcerer with only a 6 Strength grants a +2 bonus on his barbarian friend's grapple check.
I doubt a sorcerer want to get that close to a creature that grappled a barbarian.
EDIT: ah, Misread. you meant to help the barbarian grapple somebody else. I bet is still too risky for a sorcerer. FOr that 1 lv bard it could be an actual good option at low levels.
Davor
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Arclight; do all those stack? I thought it was if an ability says you grant +3 you just grant +3. So:
Cavelier = you deliver a +3 on aid another
Helpful Halfling = you deliver a +4 on aid another
I thought this meant that Helpful Halfling overrides the Order of the Dragon ability, starting your Aid Another at +4, not that the 2 add together and give +7?
This has actually been up for debate for a long time, and we've never gotten any official ruling to my knowledge.
A majority of the time, whenever you get an increased bonus to Aid Another, that benefit reads "... instead of the usual +X". However, the Order of the Dragon specifically lacks that language, instead giving the more ambiguous "...whenever an order of the dragon cavalier uses the aid another action to assist one of his allies, the ally receives a +3 bonus to his armor class, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check..." which does not have the replacement text shown for almost every other Aid Another related article.
| Cavall |
Order of the Dragon provides a bonus when you aid another. It doesn't have to be the same bonus. You could aid to help hit and also give some AC.
The best thing for aid another is finding a class that isn't swift action dependant. So, maybe not magus but a cavalier would do.
Then change the aid another to a swift and lower the bonus to 1 not 2.
I'd rather offer a bonus to someone for an action I'm not using the do nothing and if "action economy " was the biggest concern then it makes it almost a must have.
cartmanbeck
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Arclight; do all those stack? I thought it was if an ability says you grant +3 you just grant +3. So:
Cavelier = you deliver a +3 on aid another
Helpful Halfling = you deliver a +4 on aid another
I thought this meant that Helpful Halfling overrides the Order of the Dragon ability, starting your Aid Another at +4, not that the 2 add together and give +7?
You are correct, those two things don't stack. However, you can definitely get a +10 to Aid Another on AC. I do that with my PFS Helpful Halfling all the time. He's a halfling Fighter (Roughrider) 2/Cavalier (Honor Guard/Strategist) 5/Golden Legionnaire 4. Here are the bonuses and where they come from:
+4 base for Helpful trait
+1 base for Ring of Tactical Precision
+3 to AC for Benevolent armor
+1 for Improved Aid from Golden Legionnaire
Total +10, Bodyguard up to 4 times per round
Then his mount, a wolf with the Bodyguard companion archetype, is able to add another +6. She's got the Extra Traits feat (which is allowed as long as you increase the companion's Int to 3 or more). Here are here bonuses:
+4 base for Helpful trait
+2 base for Benevolent armor
Total +6, Bodyguard up to 5 times per round
So, in a given round, I can use a Swift action and a Standard action to use Aid Another twice to an ally, and my companion can use her Standard action to do so, and then our Bodyguard feats let us Aid Another again on up to four attacks, so I essentially increase my ally's AC by 42 (10+10+10+6+6) on up to four attacks. :)
Headfirst
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Can you aid another twice? Much like the Cackle hex I thought once was the max, even if you could do more.
You can actually do it three times per round with the right abilities.
| thejeff |
As I pointed out the Cackle wouldn't let you do that, so is there a rule that says you can stack these? I can't see why one is allowed and the other isn't.
Cackle isn't allowed specifically to avoid abusing the fortune hex, by cackling multiple times/round outside of combat then having the hex stay up through the fight while you get your normal full actions.
Aid Another isn't really similar at all.
cartmanbeck
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.
In the quoted text from the rules, it states "A +2 bonus to AC". This is an untyped bonus, and these always stack. No matter how much I boost my Aid Another bonus, it's always an untyped bonus, so it'll always stack. In fact, in the last line, it explicitly states that similar bonuses stack.
| Cavall |
Stack from multiple people. I'm not really asking if you can stack it, I'm asking if it goes against what Cackle errata has, where if you can do it twice in a round they still wouldn't let you.
I should have been clearer with the word "stack". I meant stack your actions not the bonuses.
Hope that's better defined?