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I recently got back into PFS after a 2 year hiatus and come to find that their is a better version of the Rogue! And that any rogues made before is allowed to be rebuilt into the new one. I was hoping to get a little advise on how to best adapt him to an unchained rogue. Here are his current stats:
Race: Tengu
Traits: Reactionary: +2 Init
Mind over Matter: +1 Will
Alignment: CG
Deity: Hei Feng
Faction: Andoran (former Lantern) (know I need to change to a new one)
Languages: Common, Tengu, Tien, Draconic, Verssian, Thassolonian, Abyssal, Infernal, Azlanti, Aklo, Celtial, Chellish
Classes:
_Rogue (Scout/Swordmaster) 6 (Trap Spotter, Offensive Def, Pressure Points)
_Barbarian (Urban) 2 (Lesser Fiend Totem)
_Fighter (Lore Warden) 1
Ability Scores:
_Str 10
_Dex 22
_Con 14 (Belt of Mighty Con +2)
_Int 10
_Wis 16
_Cha 10
AC: 25 (Glamoured +2 Mithral Chainshirt, Ring of Prot. +1, Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, Dusty Rose Ion Stone)
Fort: +11
Ref: +13
Will: +8
Melee: +14 (Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists +1)
Range: +13
CMB: +13
CMD: 24
Init: +8
Skills:
_Acrobatics +17
_Appraise +4
_Climb: +4
_Disable Device +21
_Escape Artist +10
_Fly: +6
_Kn Local +4
_Kn Nature +4
_Linguistics +15
_Perception +22 (Eyes of the Eagle)
_Sense Motive +12
_Sleight of Hand +12
_Stealth +19
_Survival +12
_Swim +4
Attacks:
_Bite 1d3+7 B/P/S
_Claw 1d3+7 B/S
_Gore 1d8+9 P
_Shortbow 1d6
Feats:
_Weapon Finesse
_Agile Maneuvers
_Tengu Wings
_Extra Rogue Talent: Pressure Point
_Bludgeoner
I know the Unchained version gets Weapon Finesse for free so that allows me another feat. I was looking at either Blood Beak or another Extra Rogue Talent though I'm open to suggestions. Or if there is any other tweaks that could be made with all the materiel that has come out since my hiatus (still trying to catch up). Thanks in advance.
What are your weapons? claws, or claw and beak? What racial abilities have you picked?
With the claws and beak, you still need both Weapon Finesse and the Agile amulet, because Finesse Training requires you to pick "claws", not "natural weapons". I assume Agile Maneuvers is for Tiger Trance. So you're basically getting dex to attack in 3 different ways, because none of them do the job entirely on their own.
You seem to be short a talent, though. 6 levels of Rogue and one pick of Extra Talent makes 4, not 3.
Offensive Defense is off the list for Unchained Rogues (presumably subsumed by Debilitating Strike), and I think you should take the opportunity to get rid of Ninja Trick: Pressure Points as well.
Why the Bludgeoner feat? A preference, coming into play often enough that it's worthwhile?
For the Barbarian levels, consider the Unchained barbarian. You get the same attack/damage bonus, fast movement, and 18 Temp HP in exchange for -4 AC. Maybe. maybe not.
By giving up a Rogue talent or two, you can squeeze in Dirty Fighting + Surprise Maneuver, to increase your chances of getting off that Tiger Trance pounce.
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Sorry, I took the alternate racial to get the claws. As far as the Bludeoner feat, took for those instances when I need to take an enemy alive and still get sneak attack. I kinda prefer Urban Barb for the Dex Rage and Crowd Control (has helped in several scenarios).
I'm curious why you suggest getting rid of Pressure Points? What is better option to replace Offensive Defense with since its out? I don't see how Dirty Fighting or Surprie Maneuvers helps much since they both require me to be flanking to get the benefit or am I missing something?
Sorry, I took the alternate racial to get the claws. As far as the Bludeoner feat, took for those instances when I need to take an enemy alive and still get sneak attack. I kinda prefer Urban Barb for the Dex Rage and Crowd Control (has helped in several scenarios).
I'm curious why you suggest getting rid of Pressure Points? What is better option to replace Offensive Defense with since its out? I don't see how Dirty Fighting or Surprie Maneuvers helps much since they both require me to be flanking to get the benefit or am I missing something?
Dirty Fighting is just to satisfy the prereqs for Surprise Maneuver; Surprise Maneuver works when your target is denied Dex to AC.
As for Rogue Talents, well...the best one is Combat Trick because it lets you get a feat instead of a Rogue Talent.
Is there a reliable way to deny Dex for Surprise Maneuver? Does Ninja Trick not work Unchained Rogues in PFS? I really like doing 9 (possible) points of Dex or Str damage with Pressure Points.
Edit: Two feats I thought would combo well with Bludgeoner would be Sap Adept & Sap Master.
Ninja Trick is fine for the UCRogue.
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Sap feats only work with Blunt weapons, though, right? Claws are Slashing. How will you lock in your Sneak Attack Damage? I like Dirty Tricks. Combat Expertise, Improved Dirty Trick, and Quick Dirty Trick. You get 3 attacks with your Claws and Bite. Blind your opponents in place of your Bite Attack, then get Sneak Attack Damage with your 2 Claws.
Claws and Bite attacks have a bludeoning component to them so the qualify for Bludgeoner and the Sap feats.
As far as Vanish that would require me spending another talent on getting Ki. Might be worth considering after getting some sleep. Still like Pressure Points though.
I'm not sure dipping into anymore classes is doable at this point but I'll have to look at them for other characters. Can't quite swing the 13 Int for Combat Experise but I'll have to look at the Dirty Trick feats. Not sure if I can fit them in but I'll see.
My deadlines Friday, so I'll get some sleep and try to see what gels with what I currently have. Ty for info so far.
I am not sure how much of a rebuild you are permitted and if you could go straight rogue but now twf with dex to attack and damage wakizashi's is a very strong build available to the sword trained Tengu. They would open up many options on what to build for.
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Here is what I am currently thinking:
Race: Tengu
Traits: Reactionary: +2 Init
Mind over Matter: +1 Will
Alignment: CG
Deity: Hei Feng
Faction: Andoran (former Lantern) (know I need to change to a new one)
Languages: Common, Tengu, Tien, Draconic, Verssian, Thassolonian, Abyssal, Infernal, Azlanti, Aklo, Celtial, Chellish
Classes:
_Unchained Rogue (Scout/Swordmaster) 6 (Trap Spotter, Pressure Points, Combat Trick)
_Barbarian (Urban) 2 (Lesser Fiend Totem)
_Fighter (Lore Warden) 1 (Bonus Feat: Sap Adapt)
Ability Scores:
_Str 10
_Dex 22
_Con 14 (Belt of Mighty Con +2)
_Int 10
_Wis 16
_Cha 10
AC: 25 (Glamoured +2 Mithral Chainshirt, Ring of Prot. +1, Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, Dusty Rose Ion Stone)
Fort: +11
Ref: +13
Will: +8
Melee: +14 (Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists +1)
Range: +13
CMB: +13
CMD: 24
Init: +8
Skills:
_Acrobatics +17
_Appraise +4
_Climb: +4
_Disable Device +21
_Escape Artist +10
_Fly: +6
_Kn Local +4
_Kn Nature +4
_Linguistics +15
_Perception +22 (Eyes of the Eagle)
_Sense Motive +12
_Sleight of Hand +12
_Stealth +19
_Survival +12
_Swim +4
Attacks:
_Bite 1d3+7 B/P/S
_Claw 1d3+7 B/S
_Gore 1d8+9 P
_Shortbow 1d6
Feats:
_Weapon Finesse
_Agile Maneuvers
_Dirty Fighting
_Tengu Wings
_Improved Dirt Trick
_Bludgeoner
_Sap Adapt
Not sure if I should keep Tengu Wings or swap it for Greater Dirty Trick or Sap Master.
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The Dirty Fighting feat can replace Combat Expertise and doesn't require 13 INT.
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I'm thinking of changing things up a little and going;
Lvl Class HP SP Feats
1Rogue 11 8 Weapon Focus, Agile Manuevers
2Fighter 8 4* Dirty Fighting
3Fighter 8 4* Combat Expertise, Sap Adept, Bludgeoner
4Barbarian 9 4
5Barbarian 9 4 Tengu Wings or Improved Dirty Trick
6Rogue 8 8
7Rogue 8 8 Improved Dirty Trick or Greater Dirty Trick
8Rogue 8 8
9Rogue 8 8 Greater Dirty Trick or Sap Master
HP Total: 77 Skill Points Total: 56* (4 must be spent on Int skills)
I'll take a hit to my skill points but better off on feats. Not sure if I should drop Tengu Wings so I can get both Greater Dirty Trick and Sap Master rather than wait till lvl 11 to have both. Any suggestions?