Hello again everyone,
My group just recently finished a campaign and after >10 years behind the screen I am finally going to get to play!
So I am excited and looking for some advice.
We all got together and our incipient GM informed us we would have to pick an AP as he did not want to create something from whole cloth. After some conversation we selected Carrion Crown.
Now we had heard that it can be difficult and that appeals to us as does the gothic horror feel, but it left me with some questions. No spoilers please, not looking to cheat or look ahead, but just want to be prepared.
Rules: Races as described in the AP players handbook, 20 PB, 150gp starting gold, Hero points.
1.) What do you think of this party makeup? Recommendations?
Our party currently consists of: Human Primalist Destined Bloodrager, Elf Shocking grasp dex based (Deadly agility from DSP) Magus, Human Arcanist, Halfling Melee Bard, Half-Orc Battle cleric of Luck and Travel [Me]. (4 melee worries me slightly, I am thinking of switching to a caster or archer cleric instead of a battle. Also I understand that it is very isolationist where we start and Half-Orcs are seen as monsters, this worries me.)
2.) Are there any ways with the exception of spells that a low level party (1-2) can hit incorporeal creatures? Weapon blanches alchemical stuff?
3.) Any recommended low level gear?
I just want to make sure I do not miss anything obvious such as holy water or alchemist's fire.
My thanks in advance everyone.
|
Yeah, a little melee heavy, look on the bright side, longspears have reach. If you want to, you can run the following stat block as an archer cleric of erastil.
Str 14, dex 16, con 12, int 10, wis 14, cha 13.
If the races were stated in carrion crown stated half orc, half orc should be fine. Take sacred tattoo (alternate racial trait), and fates favored. If they're allowed, that is.
Lv 1: Point blank
Lv 3: Precise shot
Lv 5: Rapid shot
2) How to deal with incorps at lv 1 - channel positive energy. Magic weapon spell allows a weapon to damage incorps (half damage), or wand of magic missiles. Consider scrolls and oils of magic weapon. If you have only one guy with magic weapon on against a shadow, chances are that guy will get turned into another shadow. You can cast CLW, deliver touch spell onto the incorp as well (most incorps are undead).
3) Longbow, holy symbol, waterskin, rope, grappling arrow, trail rations, longspear, studded leather, cold iron morningstar, dagger. Torches, flint and steel.
If your class needs any kind of weapons or armor, buying acid flasks/alch fire with the 150 starting gp is a waste.
Yeah, a little melee heavy, look on the bright side, longspears have reach. If you want to, you can run the following stat block as an archer cleric of erastil.
Str 14, dex 16, con 12, int 10, wis 14, cha 13.
If the races were stated in carrion crown stated half orc, half orc should be fine. Take sacred tattoo (alternate racial trait), and fates favored. If they're allowed, that is.
Lv 1: Point blank
Lv 3: Precise shot
Lv 5: Rapid shot2) How to deal with incorps at lv 1 - channel positive energy. Magic weapon spell allows a weapon to damage incorps (half damage), or wand of magic missiles. Consider scrolls and oils of magic weapon. If you have only one guy with magic weapon on against a shadow, chances are that guy will get turned into another shadow. You can cast CLW, deliver touch spell onto the incorp as well (most incorps are undead).
3) Longbow, holy symbol, waterskin, rope, grappling arrow, trail rations, longspear, studded leather, cold iron morningstar, dagger. Torches, flint and steel.
If your class needs any kind of weapons or armor, buying acid flasks/alch fire with the 150 starting gp is a waste.
Yeah ty I have fate's favored, sacred tattoo, shaman's apprentice, and the trait about luckily saving the profs life which grants +2 initiative.
Also just to be clear to avoid the "Herding Cats" syndrome we are all starting as a pre-existing adventuring party, with backgrounds written together.
The feat I took at level one was improved initiative, but I am thinking of grabbing scribe scroll instead.
Ty very much for the advice!
What about Bless weapon? Would oils of that be better or worse than oils of magic weapon?
|
|
No difference using bless weapon or magic weapon against incorps, you can't crit them without a ghost touch weapon anyway.
Archers don't have feats to spare for scribe scroll. Get the arcanist to take the feat instead. Its a pity about that halfling melee bard, because bards make good archers. A melee build has more feats free.
Haunting of Harrowstone makes some concessions for dealing with Incorporeal creatures.
They're generally less good than having a magic weapon or a spell that makes a weapon treated as one or Ghost Touch, but they exist.
Magic weapon and channelling positive energy. As well, there are some specifics in the module that help too. I also suggest weapon blanch if you can afford it, for those just in case moments.
We just finished the module with three archers, 2 melees and a wizard, it was the most fun I have had in a long time.
Enjoy.
Thinking of this, feel free to comment
Human Cleric of Erastil 1
Domains: Good and Plant
Str: 14
Dex: (14 + 2)=16
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Chr: 13
Feats
Human: Point Blank Shot
1: Precise Shot
3: Rapid Shot
5: Many Shot
7: Deadly Aim
9: Clustered Shots
11: Divine Interference
13: Weapon Focus
15: Improved Precise Shot
17: Snap Shot
19: Improved Snap Shot
Traits
A: Deadeye Bowman
B: ???
Starting Gear: Leather Armor, Longbow
Am I missing anything obvious? Any recommended traits?
P.S. The lack of an animal companion is intentional, I just do not want one.
1) You can never have too many melee. You can have too few melee. Party comp looks pretty solid to me.
2) Oil of magic weapon is about the only non-spell or channel-like ability that's going to hit incorporeal creatures at that level.
3) Just a Mort said everything and more that I would have said. Oh, and a mirror! Works well against gaze attacks and you can check around corners.
~~~
Build Stuff
Erastil is a solid god for a ranged cleric for that longbow proficiency. Unfortunately, his domains suck. I would actually recommend community over plant. It allows you to manage debuffs thrown at the party.
I was thinking of that, but liked the addition of barkskin to my spell list.
I was thinking Barkskin + GMW + MV ftw.
1) You can never have too many melee. You can have too few melee. Party comp looks pretty solid to me.
Eh? You very much CAN have too many melee characters. You need someone to deal with flying creatures, and there's only so much space around a single enemy. Even Reach users will be taking soft cover penalties attacking over their allies.
Party composition looks solid.
Tip: Never forget to bring at least some ranged weapon, even if you are a melee.
Slings are dirt cheap.
In my experience every melee person should have some ranged capabilities.
The crowded hallway is a good point though.
|
|
Thats when enlarge person, a reach weapon and phalanx formation come in. I'd be worried about flyers shooting at me from 100 ft up. No issues on animal companions, you're feat starved, and not everyone wants to control more then one character. Besides animal companions don't do well against incorps unless you have access to magic fang, some undeads can cause animals to spook.
Later you can go buy yourself heavier armor(I.e - breastplate). The things you're missing - everyday essentials. Where's your rope? And torches, flint and steel. And arrows.
If you don't have cash, fine. At least pick up a club and a dagger so you can deal with skeletons and zombies.
Why do people think you have to be only melee, or only ranged? Very few classes actually are designed this way. All full BAB classes have proficiency with martial weapons. That means they are all capable of doing both melee and ranged combat. Even if you have not invested any feats in archery any character with martial weapon proficiency can pick up a composite long bow and use it. While you may not have the accuracy, rate of fire and damage as a dedicated archer you can still do something. Likewise the archer can still pull out a melee weapon and attack.
While a focused melee characters chance to hit and damage will be a lot lower when using a bow it still helps. The same thing is true when a archer can no longer use his bow. I have seen high level fighters dealing with low powered flying creatures complaining that they are useless. When I suggested he pick up the bow lying on the ground and use it he said his character did not know how to use a bow. It was just a random encounter with a bunch of harpies and a 10th level fighter was completely shut down because of his own fault. They have an AC of 16 and his BAB is +10 but “He did not know how use a bow”. Even on his second shot he has a 50% chance to hit from BAB alone.
While a focused melee characters chance to hit and damage will be a lot lower when using a bow it still helps. The same thing is true when a archer can no longer use his bow. I have seen high level fighters dealing with low powered flying creatures complaining that they are useless. When I suggested he pick up the bow lying on the ground and use it he said his character did not know how to use a bow. It was just a random encounter with a bunch of harpies and a 10th level fighter was completely shut down because of his own fault. They have an AC of 16 and his BAB is +10 but “He did not know how use a bow”. Even on his second shot he has a 50% chance to hit from BAB alone.
I've never understood that. I've seen players do the same thing.
Or, how about the character with a single weapon? What will they do when the damage type is ineffective? A morningstar does slashing and piercing, and makes a nice backup when you get disarmed, etc. You can use a dagger if something swallows you, but not your greatsword.
Thank you everyone for your advice!
I have come up with a new thought. After looking at shaman I realized it was much closer to what I had originally wanted, retaining all of the healing and condition removal, and it also had the Animist archetype which I fell in love with.
I know it is not as strong as a straight shaman but I am taking it for this character.
Human Animist Shaman of Life 1
str 10
dex 12
con 10
int 13
wis 18
chr 14
Feats
1 Creed of Virtue (Humility)
Human Scribe Scroll
3 Craft Wondrous
5 Craft Wand
7 Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
9 Persuasive
11 Divine Interference
13 Craft Rod
15 Craft Staff
17 ???
19 ???
Traits
Altruistic Ambassador
Outcast's intuition
I love the speaking with spirits aspect and also the fact that I actually have a reason to pump diplomacy with wrangle condition.
I plan on playing him as a healer/buffer taking healing hex, life-link, and also getting Arcane enlightenment at 6th. This will let me take haste as one of my thirds at the same level our arcanist gets it.
I am also going to craft for us all, and the Valet familiar is very much going to help.
As always any recommendations or advice is very much appreciated.
I think the point he's trying to make is that you can't have too many people capable of fighting in melee, not that you can't have too many people who are only capable of melee. Ranged is separate but related: you can't have too many people capable of fighting at range, but you can have too many people who are only capable at range. Granted, being only capable at range is better than being only capable in melee, but it's still a problem.1) You can never have too many melee. You can have too few melee. Party comp looks pretty solid to me.Eh? You very much CAN have too many melee characters. You need someone to deal with flying creatures, and there's only so much space around a single enemy. Even Reach users will be taking soft cover penalties attacking over their allies.
Honestly, I don't think the point is accurate even if you make concessions for the inclusion of switch hitters - I'd take a party with an extra wizard over the party with an extra fighter most of the time.
Why do people think you have to be only melee, or only ranged? Very few classes actually are designed this way. All full BAB classes have proficiency with martial weapons. That means they are all capable of doing both melee and ranged combat. Even if you have not invested any feats in archery any character with martial weapon proficiency can pick up a composite long bow and use it. While you may not have the accuracy, rate of fire and damage as a dedicated archer you can still do something. Likewise the archer can still pull out a melee weapon and attack.
While technically true, after a certain point your piddling arrow damage with no Feats becomes useless. Especially when DR comes into play.
1d8+6 vs DR 10/Chaotic and 100+ HP is no bueno.
So, flying items become MANDATORY for anyone who isn't a dedicated archer.
Any thoughts on my shaman? Do you think it will be ok in this party comp in Carrion Crown?
It looks pretty good. I'm not sure Creed of Humility is worth a Feat though, myself.
I will say, Carrion Crown has VERY little downtime for crafting. You may want to not go that route.
Thank you both for the responses!
I do really like getting both Chr and Wis to diplomacy, and also am enjoying the theme, but I can see what you mean.
So would you say that about crafting, even with cooperative crafting and me getting 2-4k per day when not adventuring and 1-2 k when adventuring?
I would agree the Con concerns me. I guess I can drop Dex to pull up Con.
Not trying to argue, just trying to understand.
Thank you both again!
Why do people think you have to be only melee, or only ranged? Very few classes actually are designed this way. All full BAB classes have proficiency with martial weapons. That means they are all capable of doing both melee and ranged combat. Even if you have not invested any feats in archery any character with martial weapon proficiency can pick up a composite long bow and use it. While you may not have the accuracy, rate of fire and damage as a dedicated archer you can still do something. Likewise the archer can still pull out a melee weapon and attack.
While technically true, after a certain point your piddling arrow damage with no Feats becomes useless. Especially when DR comes into play.
1d8+6 vs DR 10/Chaotic and 100+ HP is no bueno.
So, flying items become MANDATORY for anyone who isn't a dedicated archer.
I am not saying you should not get appropriate items and flying items are good to have. The whole point is not to artificially limit your character based on false premises. Some classes will be effective even when fighting tough creatures. A paladin can smite evil with any weapon, and if he has weapon bond instead of mount he can do even better. An Inquisitor can also use bane and other class abilities with any weapon. The saying “Maximum utilization of available resources” should be followed. Even in the case you stated doing 1d8 +6 still has a chance to do some damage, and that is better than standing around doing nothing. If you have a better option use it, but for good sake do something.
|
|
The problem with melee and fly spells, firstly its a limited resource, next, how do you catch up with a fast flying creature I.e a dragon? With a bow, you can at least get full attacks off.
Covent, I think what they mean by crafting is the AP does not allow time to craft. Period. Clarify it with your GM before you get any crafting feats, or build your character around crafting.
I would still go archer cleric, but that's a matter of choice.