Hi there!
I'm running a Runelords campaign and just rolled the first magical treasure available in Sandpoint using the GM Guide.
Is there any guideline how many per cent of randomly generated weapons and armor/shields should be for small races?
If we consider that only about 4% of Sandpoint's citizens are of small race that will start bugging our Gnome Sandwoman eventually.
Of the seven core races only two are small, so what about 25%?
But what if non-CRB races are allowed?
What is the percentage of magical gear that can change to fit the wearer's size?
How likely is it to find a medium-sized Gnome Hooked Hammer in a shop?
Can somebody lend me a shinbone?
With a small loot table, of course! *rimshot*
More seriously, as much as you decide is there. Going fully "by the book" on rolling for treasure and whatnot is far more trouble than it's worth, IMO. I don't think there's any proper guideline for how often they should appear.
Unless there is a good reason not to i assume that players spend some down time tracking items they need in advance and can obtain size appropriate gear easily. Anything else is both time consuming and unfair to non-medium characters.
I also dislike random tables, I never use them unless there is a really really good reason to.
that said the guidelines are in the CRB under magic items and size.
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn't be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.There may be rare exceptions, especially with race-specific items.
Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100).
Only armour and weapons default to having a specific size and not being adjustable.
Thanks dragonhunterq, didn't see the paragraph in the CRB.
Rynjin, your sarcasm is well appreciated. I am prone to over-tailoring stuff (maybe because I GM mainly for my wife and relatives), so I use random tables whenever I can get them. That's my way of making life easier, but I see from which school of reasoning you have your degree in snappishness.
So only one wish for input left:
What percentage of size-adapting weapons and armor/shields would you all not find cheesy? There are some pre-made in the campaigns I have run, so they exist in Golarion.
Rynjin, your sarcasm is well appreciated. I am prone to over-tailoring stuff (maybe because I GM mainly for my wife and relatives), so I use random tables whenever I can get them. That's my way of making life easier, but I see from which school of reasoning you have your degree in snappishness.
TIL giving my opinion on how you should do things is sarcasm.
I normally assume all weapons and armour re-size magically (and it really annoys those who like to use oversized weapons for bonus laughs). I have experimented with a bit more 'by the book' approach with my current RoTR campaign and I have to say it adds nothing good. It takes an element of book-keeping, additional time away from the core adventure, and frustrates players.
So for me a non-cheesy amount of re-sizing weapons and armour is 100%. If you like extended shopping trips, carrying magic items that are unusable, carrying items that are pretty much unsellable without GM fiat and you are not bothered by a host of other minor hassles then somewhere between 0-99% might suit you better. There are no guidelines other than what works for you and your groups play-style.
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If you want to deliver to your players while using the tables, what about basing it on party composition? In case there is no Small party member, there is no Small loot, period. But if 2 of 3 party members are Small, 67% of the loot will be Small (for those items where size matters).
Well, if it doesn't feel reasonable enough, go for the average of the party percentage and the book percentage. 67% and 30% (see above) will make 48.5%, round as you like. Alternatively, you can add merchants specialized on Small gear.
Magical gear automatically adapting to user size is comfy, but personally I like using size to point out 'this item is intended for X'. These hints can be quite helpful for new players.
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@Rynjin: Sorry for offending you when you just tried to help. I was just annoyed that the first tip I got for when wanting to use the loot tables was not to use them.
@All: Thanks for the input!
I will handle it as follows for my RotR campaign:
25% chance for a random mwk or magic shop-sold weapon/armor being small (for my Gnome player)
25% chance for all magical random shop-sold weapons/armor re-sizing to fit.
Found weapons/armor (like all that giant-sized stuff later on) only re-size if explicitly stated.
We made a custom 2nd level arcane spell to transfer enchantments that match to a new base item that is eligible for the enchantments with a 100gp pearl cost.
Another option is ruling that an armorsmith can resize magical armor for a fee. Resizing magic weapons might be harder (are the magic properties in the metal? Can you melt and reforge your Greatsword of Undead Bane into smaller ones like in Game of Thrones?), but refitting armor is something real life medieval armorsmiths did fairly often.
The problem with loottables are that in most cases you get stuff nobody wants. Like, who wants a Cocoon Cloak insteat of a Cloak of Resistance +3? Also good luck playing an unarmed monk without an Amulet of Mighty Fists; and the fancy new greataxe doesn't do the fighter with Weapon Focus: Greatsword much good. Basically, rolling random loot is wasted if magic item shops are avaiable, and mostly leads to disappointment anywhay.
We made a custom 2nd level arcane spell to transfer enchantments that match to a new base item that is eligible for the enchantments with a 100gp pearl cost.
I can see the use of this, but the cost strikes me as too low considering the list price of magic items.
I would maybe replace this for my group with a similar spell that constantly reduces or increases the weapon/armor's size by one step per 100 GP pearl spent. So they can do away with size disadvantages without being able to custom tailor their equipment to a point when it becomes absurd. Just think about the effect on feats that work for just one type of weapon.
Custom Fit [Sorcerer/Wizard 3, Bard 2, Alchemist 2]
This spell allows the caster to change the size of a magic or mundane weapon, shield or piece of armor by one step per 100 GP pearl spent. In addition, non-magical items are furthermore treated as masterwork items to one single wielder, because they have adapted their weight and size as closely as possible to their individual wearer's physique.
In combination with permanency, this spell confers to a weapon, shield, or piece of armor the power to instantly adapt its size to any wearer currently holding or wearing it. This use of the spell requires material components costing 100 GP per +1 modifier of the item.
Another option is ruling that an armorsmith can resize magical armor for a fee. Resizing magic weapons might be harder (are the magic properties in the metal? Can you melt and reforge your Greatsword of Undead Bane into smaller ones like in Game of Thrones?), but refitting armor is something real life medieval armorsmiths did fairly often.
The problem with loottables are that in most cases you get stuff nobody wants. Like, who wants a Cocoon Cloak insteat of a Cloak of Resistance +3? Also good luck playing an unarmed monk without an Amulet of Mighty Fists; and the fancy new greataxe doesn't do the fighter with Weapon Focus: Greatsword much good. Basically, rolling random loot is wasted if magic item shops are avaiable, and mostly leads to disappointment anywhay.
The idea with armorsmiths is great! Alternatively, I would grant characters with Craft Magic Arms & Armor the same ability when succeeding on relevant skill checks and using a forge or workshop, hell, even on the road with artisan's tools and spit!
Rolling on loot tables does in no way replace ordering custom-made stuff in my campaigns. It's just to represent what each shop has lying around and characters don't have to wait for. I thought that was why towns and cities have those attributes listed?
In the 1001 spells book (yes I know it's not RAW)
ADJUST
Adjust School: Transmutation;
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: Touch Target: One unattended suit of armor, set of clothing, jewelry, shield, or weapon
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None;
Spell Resistance: No
Adjust instantaneously resizes an unattended piece of clothing or jewelry, a suit of armor, a shield or a weapon to f it you perfectly. This spell affects both magical and mundane equipment.
There is also the Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers. For weapons at least.
This one time use magical item is allows a (partly metal) weapon to change 1 size category towards the user. Precisely the thing you need.
It costs 1,000 gp, and it is associated with Gorum. That last bit is important, since it means it is possibly a semi-readily bought trade good (as much as any 1,000 gp item is, at least). It has use for society at large because...well...giants have cool loot too, and I don't think Gorumites take 'no' for an answer very well when it comes to war spoils.
So yes- just go to any temple of gorum, or any places that regularly sell goods to mercenaries, and you can probably find some of this stuff. Might be seen as an extra cost to small races though (maybe throw some more money at the party on the understanding that this is its purpose? That just makes this a slight annoyance, since he has to keep up a stock of silvers, or go back to town)
I understand the GM's concern.
Me, I wouldn't. Sandpoint is almost entirely medium population. Their craftsmen won't make stuff for the few rare small locals without a special order. Their merchants won't stock rare/expensive items for a few small people who might never want those things. Sure, a pair of small shoes or pants, yeah, but not expensive stuff - that would be ordered by request only, with half paid in advance no doubt.
But that's unfair to the player who chose the small race. Too bad. Want to find small armor and weapons, go adventure in a land of small people, or go invade a goblin cave, or whatever, but don't expect medium stores in a medium population to have shelves full of all sizes.
What, if a friendly cloud giant wanders by and wants to go shopping, is it unfair to HIM if Sandpoint's merchants failed to have shelves full of HUGE armor and weapons for him? Even if he moved in and became a resident, he would still need to special-order his purchases.
It only makes sense.
But I'm not cruel to my players and I do want them to have what they need, so I'd put a couple special treasure items in the dungeons just for the wee folk, even if the AP books did not. Maybe those goblins out in the woods (that's generic, I have no recollection if there really are goblins in the woods in that adventure so if it's a spoiler, it was unknowingly one) have killed a group of gnomes recently, or a halfling adventurer, or they just have a shaman capable of crafting magical items who made himself a nice whatchamacallit that coincidentally is what the PC needs. I don't mind doing that for the player.
And of course, in larger cities and/or cities with better distribution of races, it's not a problem anymore. Only 1 book away, as I recall that adventure.
Side note: I'm surprised; "whatchamacallit" makes it past the spell-checker but "halfling" does not...
I understand the GM's concern.
Me, I wouldn't. Sandpoint is almost entirely medium population. Their craftsmen won't make stuff for the few rare small locals without a special order. Their merchants won't stock rare/expensive items for a few small people who might never want those things. Sure, a pair of small shoes or pants, yeah, but not expensive stuff - that would be ordered by request only, with half paid in advance no doubt.
But that's unfair to the player who chose the small race. Too bad. Want to find small armor and weapons, go adventure in a land of small people, or go invade a goblin cave, or whatever, but don't expect medium stores in a medium population to have shelves full of all sizes.
Well, if we're going to try to bring realism into it...
According to the Pathfinder Wiki, Sandpoint is 1,116 humans, 37 halflings, 25 elves, 24 dwarves, 13 gnomes, 13 half-elves, and 12 half-orcs. So technically, anything other than "designed to fit a human" would be a special order.
Realistically, there's no way that "one size fits all" for humans, dwarves, and half-orcs, because those races are completely different sizes and shapes. Elves and half-elves can get away with being "really skinny humans", but there's no way dwarf or half-orcs would find anything to fit them at a human-centered shop.
But they're all "medium", so that's perfectly fine.
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In the 1001 spells book (yes I know it's not RAW)
ADJUST
Adjust School: Transmutation;
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: Touch Target: One unattended suit of armor, set of clothing, jewelry, shield, or weapon
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None;
Spell Resistance: No
Adjust instantaneously resizes an unattended piece of clothing or jewelry, a suit of armor, a shield or a weapon to f it you perfectly. This spell affects both magical and mundane equipment.
Now I want to create a halfling rogue who gets a wand of adjust, breaks into the armory of the city guard, and resizes every piece of codpiece armor.
Realistically, there's no way that "one size fits all" for humans, dwarves, and half-orcs, because those races are completely different sizes and shapes. Elves and half-elves can get away with being "really skinny humans", but there's no way dwarf or half-orcs would find anything to fit them at a human-centered shop.
But they're all "medium", so that's perfectly fine.
While I will certainly grant you dwarves (they are built like wrecking balls- short, think, and dense), I am not so sure about half orcs.
There are certainly humans who are built like brick walls. And looking at height and weight tables, humans and half orcs have the same minimum height, and only 4 more inches for maximum height. With weight, while the half orc minimum is about 30 more than the human minimum, and the maximum quite more, it still means that their average lies within the upper levels of normal human weight. It is certainly within the range where it is just a bit of adjustment. Nowhere near dwarf levels.
I can also write off the idea that there is dwarf armor, honestly. Because...stereotypes- I expect at least one of those dwarves to be a blacksmitth, and a dwarven blacksmith without ANY items fit for dwarves seems...odd. And it isn't like a dwarf can't just sit on a piece of equipment for a long time waiting for a proper, beardy customer.
Now you see to me, realistically, merchants are a canny lot with an eye to the bottom line. It won't take them long, especially in a smallish town like Sandpoint to find out/be told that there is a small person with a sudden influx of wealth, wielding weapons or casting spells. A few questions later, a bit of research and rush orders to suppliers in Magnimar, or pumping up the bellows all night for a week and within a few days, 2 weeks at the most, it would not surprise me to see small sized equipment that is likely to appeal to that specific small person.
Nobody has money to spend like adventurers, and every merchant will want their slice of it.
And thats one of the reasons why I handwave it mostly.
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In the 1001 spells book (yes I know it's not RAW)
ADJUST
Adjust School: Transmutation;
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: Touch Target: One unattended suit of armor, set of clothing, jewelry, shield, or weapon
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None;
Spell Resistance: No
Adjust instantaneously resizes an unattended piece of clothing or jewelry, a suit of armor, a shield or a weapon to f it you perfectly. This spell affects both magical and mundane equipment.
It's a nice solution, but I'd make two adjustments;
- Adjust by one size step per casting, in any direction you choose (so you can do it for someone else)- Increase casting time to 1 minute (out of combat usage).