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Let me start by saying that I am only looking for interpretations of the rules here (RAW or RAI are both okay), not for advice on whether it would be reasonable to make an exception to the rules.
Our party has a rogue knife-master who was recently killed. The party didn't have enough gold to pop for a raise dead, so they opted instead for a reincarnation. For the fun of it, we used an alternate reincarnation table, and he came back as a ratfolk, which are small creatures (he was originally human).
His weaponry included two masterwork daggers, medium size. According to the rules, he should take a -2 penalty to attack with them, and they would be treated as 1-handed weapons, not light weapons, but would still do the standard 1d4 damage for a medium dagger.
Now here is the crux. As a knife master, his sneak attack uses d8 instead of d6 for damage when using "daggers or dagger-like weapons," but only d4 when using any other kind. All of the listed weapons that allow the d8 are light weapons. However, since he now has to treat those daggers as 1-handed weapons (as they are more unwieldy in his smaller hands), do they still count as "daggers or dagger-like weapons" for the purpose of determining die type damage for sneak attack?
Again, while I don't think it would be unreasonable to allow them to still count (or meet him in the middle and let them do d6, because they're still daggers, but he can't finesse them quite as well), I am mostly interested in seeing rules interpretations. This is simply for debate, because he has a very easy out - there is a nearby armory they discovered where he can easily swap out for a pair of normal daggers of small size, and I'm going to allow him to simply break down the masterwork medium daggers for materials in lieu of the cost requirement for the bard's masterwork transformation spell. So solving the problem without having to really McGuyver the rules is not an issue.
daggers are daggers no matter how small (or large as the case may be.)
A diminutive knife master with a dagger the size of a needle will still do d8s on their sneak attack die. Size is completely irrelevant.
I would advise you to try to get the weapons either resized or changed out for smaller ones though, as it would make him more effective.
If gonna apply all the penalties that they're still medium sized daggers (loss of weapon finesse since he's small and they're now one-handed and the -2 to attacks from inappropriate size penalty) then he should keep any benefit from it too = they're daggers so he gets d8's for sneak attack.
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If gonna apply all the penalties that they're still medium sized daggers (loss of weapon finesse since he's small and they're now one-handed and the -2 to attacks from inappropriate size penalty) then he should keep any benefit from it too = they're daggers so he gets d8's for sneak attack.
Yeah, weapon finesse is kind of what I was looking at as a guideline, basically, how much does the ability to finesse the weapons for pin-point precision play into the extra damage, something which is harder to do when you're using an oversized weapon. But I agree, with the loss of weapon finesse AND the -2 size penalty, it would seem like overkill to also take away the extra damage.
You can sneak attack with anything, basically.
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A diminutive knife master with a dagger the size of a needle will still do d8s on their sneak attack die. Size is completely irrelevant.
I would advise you to try to get the weapons either resized or changed out for smaller ones though, as it would make him more effective.
Size is only at issue because he is not using a dagger sized for him. I agree that as long as the weapon is appropriately sized for the creature, there should be no difference in the sneak attack damage. A diminutive creature using something the size of a needle, a tiny creature using something the size of a pocketknife, or a small creature using something the size of a letter opener. But the issue is when a small creature is using something almost the size of a short sword (for him), can he finesse it well enough to do the sort of precision damage that the d8 sneak attack die suggests.
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You can sneak attack with anything, basically.
Agreed, you can sneak attack with a greatsword! But in the hands of a knife-master, a greatsword would do d4 sneak instead of d8. So the question is, would an oversized dagger that is now treated as 1-handed rather than light, still do the d8 rather than the d4?
Agreed, you can sneak attack with a greatsword! But in the hands of a knife-master, a greatsword would do d4 sneak instead of d8. So the question is, would an oversized dagger that is now treated as 1-handed rather than light, still do the d8 rather than the d4?You can sneak attack with anything, basically.
Yes. A dagger is a dagger is a dagger, regardless of size. If you had a 30 foot dagger and had some way to actually wield it, it would still do d8s.