Greetings everyone, I come here to ask for some feedback on a build I've been thinking of for quite some time, all feedback and criticism is appreciated.
Starting from level two, other levels not implemented but ideas for future levels are. (Huge inspiration from Mercurial's own barbarian which can be found Here.)
Tiefling Foulspawn, 1 Fighter [Unbreakable], 1 Barbarian [Invulnerable rager & Urban barbarian]
Attributes: [20 point buy]
Str 16 (+2 from racial)
Dex 15 ( I like to put the first additional attribute point towards dex just to make it +3, 100% optional)
Con 14
Int 6 (-2 from racial)
Wis 10
Cha 12 (+2 from racial, me talk good even if me not know what saying sometimes, ladies love it.)
Alternate Racial things
Scaled Skin: Replace fiendish resistances for +1 AC and you still keep one elemental resistance, I think fire is a solid one to keep.
If you really want the other 2 resistances you can always take the racial feat Armor of the Pit ( gives +2 ac and two other resistances you didn't get.) Definitely not bad to take imo, but I'm not the most knowledgeable individual.
Ask your GM if they will allow alternative physical features if yes, I recommend over-sized limbs, allows you to wield large weapons without penalty, pretty solid.
Other alternate physical features are probably worth a look, this one just stood out the most to me.
Feats
1 - Power attack, Die hard, Endurance. (Thank you unbreakable fighter.)
3 - Deadly aim (For awesome composite bows, duh.) Or improved sunder if you don't care for wussy ranged combat! Break enemy things make barbarian happy unless barbarian wants said enemy thing ; Also helps with the rage power Spell sunder.
5 - Combat reflexes (At this point you should have a +3 to dex, you can take it earlier if you want.)
Traits
Defender of the Society (+1 AC when wearing heavy armor which, with this build you will be.)
Birthmark (+1 Will saves, pretty solid)
Rage powers
1st rage power - Spell Sunder or Superstition or Witch Hunter (I'm pretty undecided tbh, all of em' are amazing!)
2nd rage power - Whichever one you didn't take first
3rd rage power - Whichever one you didn't take first or second.
So the one thing I do notice is that - It's kind of a skill starved build so you won't be very much outside of intimidating and being perceptive. Or whatever else you decide to take for skills.
So besides that, thoughts?
First recommendation, Scaled Skin is not worth it. That extra bit of AC is nice at early levels but you'll really start missing those other resistances. Also Armor of the Pit combined with Scaled Skin is far worse compared to just taking Armor of the Pit.
As for other stuff, I personally dislike going below 7 in a stat, but that's just me. Also you should definitely be grabbing the full Beast totem for pounce, unless it's just a stylistic decision to not get it.
First recommendation, Scaled Skin is not worth it. That extra bit of AC is nice at early levels but you'll really start missing those other resistances. Also Armor of the Pit combined with Scaled Skin is far worse compared to just taking Armor of the Pit.
As for other stuff, I personally dislike going below 7 in a stat, but that's just me. Also you should definitely be grabbing the full Beast totem for pounce, unless it's just a stylistic decision to not get it.
I don't mind going to 6 int since it has the same -2 mod and same personality description as 7, but I wouldn't mind hearing your side of it.
As for the rage powers - these are just ones I prefer since my DM LOVES throwing spellcasters/monsters with spell like abilities at me, I will however take a look into the beast totem for later levels or even earlier levels.
and you're probably right about the scaled skin, I kind of made this build running on fumes but I'll probably read more into it and make a final decision, I just like AC, it feels so safe. lol, but you're probably right about just taking Armor of the pit if I want the extra AC from a feat.
Why do you need combat reflexes? Do you have a reach weapon?
Spell sunder is at the end of the chain. You need superstition AND witch hunter to get it.
Why do you need combat reflexes? Do you have a reach weapon?
Spell sunder is at the end of the chain. You need superstition AND witch hunter to get it.
Oh right I forgot about that, haha!
As for combat reflexes? It's nice to have, mostly preference and it's honestly pulled through ALOT for me in the past, but if you have an idea of what could take it's place, feel free to educate me on the matter.
I'm aware 6 and 7 are functionally the same, but I suppose since you can't actually point-buy below 7 I jsut feel like your stat shouldn't really go below that is all.
Also just noticed, you have 14 con, which means you can't get Raging Vitality which needs 15. May want to try and rearrange that, or make it your lvl 4 stat boost.
I'm aware 6 and 7 are functionally the same, but I suppose since you can't actually point-buy below 7 I jsut feel like your stat shouldn't really go below that is all.
Also just noticed, you have 14 con, which means you can't get Raging Vitality which needs 15. May want to try and rearrange that, or make it your lvl 4 stat boost.
Pointbuy wise I have it at 8 which gets a -2 from racial making it 6.
And holy crap you're right. lol
Why do you need combat reflexes? Do you have a reach weapon?
Spell sunder is at the end of the chain. You need superstition AND witch hunter to get it.
Oh right I forgot about that, haha!
As for combat reflexes? It's nice to have, mostly preference and it's honestly pulled through ALOT for me in the past, but if you have an idea of what could take it's place, feel free to educate me on the matter.
I don't think Combat reflexes have any utility unless you can force AOO somehow. Reach weapons, Come and Get Me, Bodyguard feat, that kind of stuff. Unless your GM makes the enemy to run around you without any real reason, it's hard to get more than 1 AOO chance per turn
I don't know what to suggest, because I still don't have a clear picture of what you try to build. Are you going to use Shield? Or a 2h weapon? If so, Furious Focus is a good feat. At low levels Cleave is a good feat too. Iron Will, Toughness, are good, generic, always useful feats if you don't know what you are trying to build
Why do you need combat reflexes? Do you have a reach weapon?
Spell sunder is at the end of the chain. You need superstition AND witch hunter to get it.
Oh right I forgot about that, haha!
As for combat reflexes? It's nice to have, mostly preference and it's honestly pulled through ALOT for me in the past, but if you have an idea of what could take it's place, feel free to educate me on the matter.
I don't think Combat reflexes have any utility unless you can force AOO somehow. Reach weapons, Come and Get Me, Bodyguard feat, that kind of stuff. Unless your GM makes the enemy to run around you without any real reason, it's hard to get more than 1 AOO chance per turn
I don't know what to suggest, because I still don't have a clear picture of what you try to build. Are you going to use Shield? Or a 2h weapon? If so, Furious Focus is a good feat. At low levels Cleave is a good feat too. Iron Will, Toughness, are good, generic, always useful feats if you don't know what you are trying to build
Hmm you have a point I see where you're coming from now, I misunderstood AOO's thinking it was only like Your dex mod per encounter, I was indeed planning on a large earthbreaker as for reach I am pretty uncertain if I'm being honest, should I always carry a reach weapon alongside my earthbreaker?
I know there are probably better weapons it's just, I really like the Earthbreaker since a large one is 3d6 damage.
But what I might do is carry a backup large glaive however for Slashing/piercing damage options in case something is resistant to blunt damage + reach or is there another weapon you'd recommend?
Also thanks for this discussion thus far, it's really helping me pick out some things and pick things in a proper order.
Nothing wrong with an earthbreaker, I'm assuming you got permission from your DM to take the large arms variant racial trait?
What you should have though is definitely a ranged weapon. A bow, or for extra cool points, a number of chakrams.
Hmm you have a point I see where you're coming from now, I misunderstood AOO's thinking it was only like Your dex mod per encounter, I was indeed planning on a large earthbreaker as for reach I am pretty uncertain if I'm being honest, should I always carry a reach weapon alongside my earthbreaker?Why do you need combat reflexes? Do you have a reach weapon?
Spell sunder is at the end of the chain. You need superstition AND witch hunter to get it.
Oh right I forgot about that, haha!
As for combat reflexes? It's nice to have, mostly preference and it's honestly pulled through ALOT for me in the past, but if you have an idea of what could take it's place, feel free to educate me on the matter.
I don't think Combat reflexes have any utility unless you can force AOO somehow. Reach weapons, Come and Get Me, Bodyguard feat, that kind of stuff. Unless your GM makes the enemy to run around you without any real reason, it's hard to get more than 1 AOO chance per turn
I don't know what to suggest, because I still don't have a clear picture of what you try to build. Are you going to use Shield? Or a 2h weapon? If so, Furious Focus is a good feat. At low levels Cleave is a good feat too. Iron Will, Toughness, are good, generic, always useful feats if you don't know what you are trying to build
It depends on what you want to build. The build you copied above has a reach weapon. But it also has 14 int, and combat reflexes, and Stalwart, so it's a totally different build, that has nothing to do with having a large earthbreaker and smashing things with it. If you try to copy half a build, and let the other half out, you might end having a copy of an F-14 Tomcat which doesn't have wings.
You should make yourself a clear mental picture of what you want to achieve. If what you want is a monster with hard skin, a huge hammer, Hulk-like or Drax-like intelligence, crushing things, then the build you started to copy has very little to offer to you. Your concept is perfectly fine, but you should think about a different build maybe.
Your barbarian could be using a glaive, or a hammer, or an axe and shield, or 2 scimitars, or throwing axes, or biting and clawing people to death. He could even be a gun wielding barbarian, there's an archetype for that too. You can increase your DR, or AC, or magic resistance, or damage, or be a wrecking ball charging and tripping people, or do huge amounts of damage in a single hit per turn. All of them would work, but all of them would require different builds, and provide different flavor and different player experience.
I suppose I just want to build someone who smashes things, has DR and focuses on sundering enemies weapons (and spells)
Nothing wrong with an earthbreaker, I'm assuming you got permission from your DM to take the large arms variant racial trait?
What you should have though is definitely a ranged weapon. A bow, or for extra cool points, a number of chakrams.
Haha didn't even think of a bow, a +4 large composite bow would just nuke since it's damage is 2d6.
As for my DM, it's a give and take sort of thing, since it's a
Physically altering feature, he'll probably treat it like Prehensile tail.
And even IF he doesn't allow it, it's still fine, I've got no problem if I'm not allowed to take it.
Large chakrams are also 2d6, and only cost 2gp a pop.
Looking back at your build. I'd just go pure invulnerable rager, and drop the fighter level. I'd probably also drop the urban barbarian since the main draw to urban is dex to rage, but you're not really getting any benefit off it.
As mentioned, your build right now is really confusing and doesn't fit your character at all at the moment.
Large chakrams are also 2d6, and only cost 2gp a pop.
Looking back at your build. I'd just go pure invulnerable rager, and drop the fighter level. I'd probably also drop the urban barbarian since the main draw to urban is dex to rage, but you're not really getting any benefit off it.
As mentioned, your build right now is really confusing and doesn't fit your character at all at the moment.
I'm starting to realize that now, like I said earlier I made this build on like 20 hours of being awake and being super tired, looking at it - you're right it's a huge freaking mess. It's a good thing I came here to get people to discuss this with before I tried to run with it cause it'd be terrible to be level 2 and be like "I'm taking sunder spell." lol, that'd be embarrassing :P
I suppose I just want to build someone who smashes things, has DR and focuses on sundering enemies weapons (and spells)
Well, that's a clear goal I think.
High DR needs Stalwart and Combat Expertise (or crane wing and being a halfling, but I think that's not your goal). Combat Expertise needs Inteligence 13, which makes it very different to what you were thinking about. That's why the build you started to copy got Unbreakable fighter, because Unbreakable Fighter 1 gives you Diehard and Endurance, which are both pre-req of Stalwart, and that's why he has INT 14 to begin with. Invulnerable rager by itself gives you a bit of DR, but it's not huge. There's another option, going the Dragon Totem route, but uses most of your rage powers and make it difficult to mix with spell-sundering.
Assuming you don't want to change your concept, and you want to go with the earthbreaker build and the low int, monster like, hulk-smash concept, I would leave that aside, except maybe as a token DR. You could represent your "tough skin" with natural armor, which is easier.
If you are allowed to get those long limbs (which I'd ask the GM first, as those are NOT supposed to be something you can choose normally), it allows you to get 3d6 earthbreaker. I'd try to focus on that, just to have a differnent char to the normal, regular standard pouncing beast totem barbarian. One level of Ranger gives you access to Lead Blades, which raises your damage to 4d6 for 1 minute. Living Monolith PrC has access to 3x day enlarge, which works with non-humanoids (which your Tiefling is not). That raises your damage to 6d6. With Vital Strike, it'll be 12d6 at lvl 6, and Furious Finish allows you to get max damage.
So, maybe something like:
Barbarian (inv rager) 6, Ranger 1, Unbreakable fighter 1, Living Monolith 1.
20 point buy:
Str 16+2 =18, dex 12, Con 16, Int 8-2 =6 , Wis 12, Cha 8+2 = 10
(Note: I'd rather have Int 12-2 =10, Wis 10, and Cha 7+2 = 9, as I like skills. But for your character concept seems to be important to have hulk-like inteligence, so I left it that way. Think about it, though.)
Feats:
1- Barbarian 1: Raging Vitality
2- Unbreakable Fighter 1: Endurance + Die Hard
3- Barbarian 2: Iron Will, Rage power: Superstition.
4- Ranger 1: Fav. Enemy, can use Wands of Lead Blades
5- Barbarian 3: Power Attack (or any other feat)
6- Living Monolith: Retrain Power Attack to Vital Strike. Can enlarge 3x day as swift action.
7- Barbarian 4: Furious Finish, Rage Power Witch Hunter.
8- Barbarian 5
9- Barbarian 6: Power Attack, Rage Power: Spell Sunder.
Make sure you buy an Invigorating weapon, to recover fatigue when you get out of rage with Furious Finish. With Lead Blades and Enlarge person, while raging, with power attack, at that level you will do about 12d6+ 19, max damage, as a standard action, and if you kill, you recover from fatigue and can rage again. You'll have your witch hunting ability, and your spell sundering ability, and decent saves. Your AC will be pretty low, though, although you can use a Full Plate. You have a token damage reduction (DR 3\-), and a lot of HP.
Another posibility is to take Urban Barbarian, not taking Con bonus in your rage, and removing the need for Raging Vitality, which you could spend in the tiefling natural armor feat. As urban barbarian you don't get the -2 to AC, so that change is effectively a 4 point increase in AC, in exchange of hp and +3 Fort while raging.
There are plenty other ways to build it (like ditching Unbreakable Fighter, get 3 lvels of Rager for the Endurance, and be an Armored Hulk for the heavy armor proficiency). And there are a lot of other possible different builds that are close to your concept, but I think this is a fun, different one, which gives you a char with a very distinctive look and way to play. Hope it helps.
I've made the numbers above from the top of my head, so don't be surprised if some of them are wrong, and check them yourself again before you use them in a real game.
Large chakrams are also 2d6, and only cost 2gp a pop.
Looking back at your build. I'd just go pure invulnerable rager, and drop the fighter level. I'd probably also drop the urban barbarian since the main draw to urban is dex to rage, but you're not really getting any benefit off it.
As mentioned, your build right now is really confusing and doesn't fit your character at all at the moment.
For me, the main draw of going urban is to ignore the -2 to AC and to ignore the need of Raging Vitality, which frees a feat. Specially that last one.
As a GM, I use the new style of rage in Unchained (temp hp instead of increasing CON), and I think it's way better. Raging Vitality is a tax feat
An alternative to Barbarian is the Bloodrager. Abyssal bloodline will auto enlarge you when you rage at lvl 4. That's pretty damn useful, and Primalist will let you still pick up the rage powers you need most likely.
So with a large Earthbreaker at lvl 4 you enlarge and it then becomes a huge earthbreaker at no cost. You could also sacrifice your lvl 1 bloodline power for a familiar for +4 initiative, or a number of other things. Also remember to get a Furious weapon, so when you rage your weapon goes from being +1 to +3.
Bloodrager will be better for sure. I took Barbarian only because the OP said barbarian, and maybe he doesn't want to mess with spells and a spell list. But Bloodrager will be my choice for this concept if I were to do it.
Untouchable archetype gives the bloodrager Spell Resist, which also fits the OP concept I guesss
Bloodrager will be better for sure. I took Barbarian only because the OP said barbarian, and maybe he doesn't want to mess with spells and a spell list. But Bloodrager will be my choice for this concept if I were to do it.
Untouchable archetype gives the bloodrager Spell Resist, which also fits the OP concept I guesss
Hey! sorry for the late reply I was playing some payday talking to my DM about the limbs thing, I give up some things, I get it - I still think it's worth, anyways...
What uh..What stat spread should I go with for bloodrager?
My current Bloodrager is a half-orc with: 17 STR, 10 DEX, 15 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 13 CHA.
Bloodrager will be better for sure. I took Barbarian only because the OP said barbarian, and maybe he doesn't want to mess with spells and a spell list. But Bloodrager will be my choice for this concept if I were to do it.
Untouchable archetype gives the bloodrager Spell Resist, which also fits the OP concept I guesss
Hey! sorry for the late reply I was playing some payday talking to my DM about the limbs thing, I give up some things, I get it - I still think it's worth, anyways...
What uh..What stat spread should I go with for bloodrager?
Bloodragers need Charisma to cast spells, so probably something like Str 18, Dex 14 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 10 Cha 14, after modifiers, is a good place to start. Abyssal Bloodline and Steelblood archetype so you get heavy armor proficiency (and casting spells while in Heavy Armor). Get as well Primal Rager archetype, and rage powers.
With untouchable archetype you'll lose the spells (but keep the enlargment), in exchange of spell resistance. While normally I wouldn't suggest it, as spells are too sexy, maybe if you don't want to mess with a spell list and having spells and such, you can take a look at it.
Bloodrager will be better for sure. I took Barbarian only because the OP said barbarian, and maybe he doesn't want to mess with spells and a spell list. But Bloodrager will be my choice for this concept if I were to do it.
Untouchable archetype gives the bloodrager Spell Resist, which also fits the OP concept I guesss
Hey! sorry for the late reply I was playing some payday talking to my DM about the limbs thing, I give up some things, I get it - I still think it's worth, anyways...
What uh..What stat spread should I go with for bloodrager?
Bloodragers need Charisma to cast spells, so probably something like Str 18, Dex 14 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 10 Cha 14, after modifiers, is a good place to start. Abyssal Bloodline and Steelblood archetype so you get heavy armor proficiency (and casting spells while in Heavy Armor). Get as well Primal Rager archetype, and rage powers.
With untouchable archetype you'll lose the spells (but keep the enlargment), in exchange of spell resistance. While normally I wouldn't suggest it, as spells are too sexy, maybe if you don't want to mess with a spell list and having spells and such, you can take a look at it.
Sounds good, do you think it would be viable to sneak in intimidating presence and Cornugon smash? Just curious.
If you got the feats. Personally I opted for Arcane Strike, Blooded Arcane Strike, and Riving Strike, so between Power Attack, and Raging Vitality, my build doesn't have much room for such things but if you're good at intimidate, there is little reason to not take the cornugon smash route, it's what my investigator does.
Sounds good, do you think it would be viable to sneak in intimidating presence and Cornugon smash? Just curious.
Yes.
1- Raging Vitality.3- Power Attack
5- Hurtful
7- Cornugon Smash
9- Intimidating Prowess
could be a perfectly viable build. Notice that you need CON 15 for raging vitality, so you can't use exactly the same stats that I proposed above if you want them in this order. Yoy have to take Raging vitality at 5, after rising your Con by 1, or you can reduce your CHA by a bit, if you are not going to cast spells (in that case, take Intimidating prowess sooner, instead of Hurtful)
1- Raging Vitality.
3- Power Attack
5- Hurtful
7- Cornugon Smash
9- Intimidating Prowesscould be a perfectly viable build. Notice that you need CON 15 for raging vitality, so you can't use exactly the same stats that I proposed above if you want them in this order. Yoy have to take Raging vitality at 5, after rising your Con by 1, or you can reduce your CHA by a bit, if you are not going to cast spells (in that case, take Intimidating prowess sooner, instead of Hurtful)
I'd definitely recommend the above, especially the inclusion of Hurtful.