Coin Shot Spellstrike?

[Mekura]

I've been playing around with some of the material I've read popping up on from Heroes of the Street, and the coin shot spell in particular is catching my eye. While its a bit pricey with early levels, its a spell that scales well in terms of damage, especially once you can reliably hold platinum coins, and lasts for a good duration. As far as I can tell, you can even stock up on the coins, casting the spell say three times before a fight so you've plenty of ammunition.

My question is this- Are the coins are a valid option for the Cartomancer or Eldrtich archer's spellstrikes? I ask because the thought of playing a gambler type character who uses coins and cards makes for awesome flavor. It seems really strong, being able to fire touch AC projectiles that can spellstrike, so I thought I'd ask to confirm it works.

My reasoning is that it explicitly refers to them as simple thrown weapons, with their own damage (Albeit varying) and weapon qualities, that they'd be a perfectly valid option for spellstriking and spellcombat when applicable. I realize that the Cartomancer has a still murky Spellcombat question that I don't THINK has been addressed specifically by any Developers, though I welcome links to prove me wrong.

I'm asking this specifically so I can back up my usage of it this way in a game before doing so in actuality.

Also, now that I think about it, I suppose their damage wouldn't necessary change if the caster was a small race? Maybe.

[Torbyne]

The spell has a range of touch so it does not qualify for an Eldritch Archer who can only spell strike ranged attack spells.

EDIT: Also, the cost is entirely not worth it as they count as ammunition which is mostly lost on firing so those 100GP per shot platinum 1D10 plus miniscule amounts add up quick. Copper coins are a better trade off but only for flavor at low levels.

[My Self]

Sure, these look perfectly usable with Eldritch Archer. It's just that you're paying more per shot than a Gunslinger, and even Gunslingers have a way to lower the price. As for damage, does Acid Arrow deal less damage if you're small? You should be dealing the same regardless of size.

You can use Spell Combat and cast these on coins while fighting, and can use coins enhanced by Coin Shot as ammo for spellstriking, but as Torbyne says, this isn't a valid spell for spellstriking. (although why would you ever do that?) In short, yes, you may deliver spells using thrown coins.

[Torbyne]

you can spell combat with the spell just fine, you get one free attack when you cast it and can use your normal iteratives to throw the next. but Spellstriking is right out so no channeling damage or touch attacks by bow.

[Chris Kenney]

Erm, I think the proposed action sequence here is to, before combat, cast one or more iterations of Coin Shot to 'prime' the attack later. THEN, once in a fight, possibly if an enemy has closed to close range, use spellstrike with a different spell on the already-enchanted coins.

Which seems to work if you have some way to get spellstrike with a ranged weapon.

[My Self]

Chris Kenney wrote:

Erm, I think the proposed action sequence here is to, before combat, cast one or more iterations of Coin Shot to 'prime' the attack later. THEN, once in a fight, possibly if an enemy has closed to close range, use spellstrike with a different spell on the already-enchanted coins.

Which seems to work if you have some way to get spellstrike with a ranged weapon.

Eldritch Archer and Cartomancer can do this, both of which the OP mentioned.

And that does seem to be the intent- Coin Shot provides the ammo, not the spell being cast through Spellstrike.

[Ridiculon]

My Self wrote:

It's just that you're paying more per shot than a Gunslinger, and even Gunslingers have a way to lower the price.

You can just use abundant ammunition and not worry about it, or even better get a bag with AA on it and call it your coin pouch (just remember not to toss tips to the barkeep as they will disappear and he will probably call the town guards on you)

[Claxon]

Abundant ammunition can't even replicate special materials on arrows any more (it was errata'd) so I would lean strongly towards the interpretation that it's not going to work with the coins created by coin shot.

They're also explicitly only treated as ammunition for the purpose of drawing them, so they definitely don't qualify to be used with abundant ammunition.

[Ridiculon]

Claxon wrote:

Abundant ammunition can't even replicate special materials on arrows any more (it was errata'd) so I would lean strongly towards the interpretation that it's not going to work with the coins created by coin shot.

They're also explicitly only treated as ammunition for the purpose of drawing them, so they definitely don't qualify to be used with abundant ammunition.

Abundant Ammunition: When cast on a container such as a quiver or a pouch that contains nonmagical ammunition or shuriken (including masterwork ammunition or shuriken, but not special materials, alchemical attributes, or nonmagical treatments on the ammunition) at the start of each round this spell replaces any ammunition taken from the container the round before. The ammunition taken from the container the round before vanishes. If, after casting this spell, you cast a spell that enhances projectiles, such as align weapon or greater magic weapon, on the same container, all projectiles this spell conjures are affected by that spell.

Is this text still correct or is it in need of an update?

If its correct it looks like it would combo just fine, since AA is cast on the container and not the ammo itself, and it specifically says that it replicates spells cast on the ammo after AA is activated

EDIT: NVM, the coin shot spell specifically says the coin is destroyed at end of the attack so even with AA you would only get dust returned and you cant hurt people with dust even if you throw it

[Claxon]

The text is correct but your overlooking things that make it a no.

1) Nonmagical ammunition, it's magical ammunition. They magic only lasts 10/min per level or until discharged. It's not like you used an instantaneous spell to create some item that functions in a certain way. No, these are clearly magical coins.
2) They coin shot spell specifically stats that they count as ammunition only for the purpose of being drawn. Which means that aren't ammunition for any other purpose. What happens if you put a wand in a pouch and cast abundant ammunition? Nothing, it's not ammunition. Neither are the coins. The only count as ammunition for the purpose of being drawn.

[Ridiculon]

I agree that abundant ammunition will not combine with coin shot now for a couple reasons, but this:

Claxon wrote:

1) Nonmagical ammunition, it's magical ammunition. They magic only lasts 10/min per level or until discharged. It's not like you used an instantaneous spell to create some item that functions in a certain way. No, these are clearly magical coins.

is incorrect; the spell modifies mundane coins. If it required a coin as a spell component and created some new coins that would be different, but by RAW the coins do not count as magical ammunition (partially because, as you said in your second point, they don't count as ammunition at all until you make an attack action with them).

[Splendor]

What is a destroyed platinum coin worth? Surely there must be pieces left....