I'm currently playing a skald along with a barbarian and a bloodrager in PFS. I was told this was not necessarily optimal due to the way the various rage effects interact, but I was fine with that, mostly because of theme. However, I'd like to have a few things confirmed and clarified.
Based on the Advanced Class Guide FAQ, rage from multiple sources (skald inspired rage and barbarian rage) do not stack.
The FAQ specifically references the polymorph type of spells as a similar interaction paradigm.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.
So I'm curious as to the interactions in specific corner cases. It doesn't sound like the non-chosen rage is suppressed, but rather doesn't even take effect.
In the case of polymorph spells, if you are targeted by two, and choose one to affect you, but then the duration runs out or is dispelled, does the other one take effect, or was it never there to begin with?
Also, is replacement any different from stopping the first effect and starting the second? I presume not, and that in case of a barbarian/bloodrager rage being replaced, they suffer fatigue as normal.
So here are some specific cases.
Situation 1:
The barbarian is currently using her own rage class ability, and then the skald begins inspired rage. The barbarian chooses to accept skald rage (per the skald inspired rage wording), which then sets up the FAQ choice, and chooses her original rage.
Is the Barbarian considered under the effects of a Skald's song for purposes of (Saving Finale?
My guess is no, although there's always the option at higher levels to use a song other than inspired rage, such as the song of strength.
Situation 2: Same as 1, except now after keeping the original rage, the Barbarian is knocked unconscious. When does the Skald's rage benefits take effect on the unconscious barbarian? Immediately when they fall unconscious or at the start of their next turn? If the barbarian has raging vitality, are they forced to accept the skald's rage per the inspired rage rules or are there really 2 decisions which get made as I suggest in situation 1? Can an unconscious character make such decisions?
Situation 3: When can a barbarian choose to make the switch? Inspired rage in some sense is continually being generated by the skald. I think its clear a Barbarian can be under the effect of inspired rage, and use a rage power granted by the skald inspired rage, then as a free action begin raging to switch to her own rage abilities, and use a rage power.
However, can a barbarian using her own rage choose to replace her rage with a skald's mid-turn? What if the skald readies an action to begin singing in the middle of the Barbarian's turn as opposed to just relying on the round to round continuation?
Situation 4: Is it reasonable to use the skald inspired rage as a poor man's (or feat poor man's) raging vitality? Presumably if the barbarian is under the effects of the skald's inspired rage, it doesn't go away when they fall unconscious.
Sitaution 5: Does raging vitality actually do you any good when you are using Amplified Rage and Warleader's Rage (from Orcs of Golarion). Presumably when you fall unconscious, you no longer can see the character with Warleader's Rage, and thus even with raging vitality, you lose 2*level in hit points. Assuming a 15 Con, that means at 8th level and higher raging vitality doesn't actually keep you alive while unconscious.
Thanks ahead of time for answers and comments.
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Situation 1: If the barbarian chooses the skald's rage, her own immediately ends (and she is fatigued for a number of rounds). If she chooses not to accept the skald rage and maintains her barbarian rage, she is not under the effects of Inspired Rage.
Situation 2: The choice to accept a skald's song is made at the beginning of a player's turn. I don't think you can take the free action to end barbarian's rage while unconscious. Per the FAQ, they would not be able to accept the skald's song.
Situation 3: The choice to accept a skald's song is made at the beginning of a player's turn. A barbarian can rage as a free action at any point during their turn.
Situation 4: Inspired rage explicitly applies to unconscious creatures. So yes, it can be used as a replacement for raging vitality. The barbarian probably wants to take Guarded Life if they plan to use their own rounds often.
Situation 5: probably not.
Thanks for the quick response and the confirmation.
However, one response doesn't quite make sense to me:
Situation 2: The choice to accept a skald's song is made at the beginning of a player's turn. I don't think you can take the free action to end barbarian's rage while unconscious. Per the FAQ, they would not be able to accept the skald's song.
As far as I can tell, its not a free action to "replace" a rage. Its a choice presented to you. You can't take free actions not on your turn (except speaking I think), which means you'd never be able to replace a rage generated by some other source or person if it takes a free action to replace. Similarly, it doesn't take a free action to replace a polymorph spell effect.
Does that make sense?
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Per the FAQ, if you are not able to freely end the rage, you cannot choose to replace that rage with a new one. It is unclear, but if you cannot take the free action to end it (due to being unconscious), I'm not sure you are allowed to replace it.
The choice is almost always presented to you on your turn, so taking free actions off turn is not really the issue.
I could see it go either way. Personally, I lean toward inspire rage taking effect automatically and ending the unconscious barbarian's rage.
Per the FAQ, if you are not able to freely end the rage, you cannot choose to replace that rage with a new one. It is unclear, but if you cannot take the free action to end it (due to being unconscious), I'm not sure you are allowed to replace it.
The choice is almost always presented to you on your turn, so taking free actions off turn is not really the issue.
I could see it go either way. Personally, I lean toward inspire rage taking effect automatically and ending the unconscious barbarian's rage.
I'm glad I asked as this clarification has some further reaching consequences.
I can certainly agree with being unconscious meaning you are not free to choose to end the rage by the argument that when unconscious you can't choose anything at all.
However, replacing a rage effect taking a free action does actually affect several use cases I was considering. Also, if you must be able to cancel the rage in the normal way at the time of the replacement, it really restricts when it can happen in general.
Of the 4 ways mentioned in that FAQ to rage (Rage class ability, Bloodrage class ability, Rage spell, Inspired Rage) half are generated by other people and almost always happen out of turn. Perhaps I'm reading into it too much when I read it the choice is like that for polymorph spells, which clearly doesn't require a free action to choose between the effects and can happen at any point in the turn order.
This also raises the question of whether you can willingly end the Skald's rage, since you can't end the Skald's rage as a free action on your turn. It lasts until either A) the skald stops singing or B) the beginning of your next turn.
That implies the answer to Situation 3 is in fact a no. You cannot choose to rage on your turn once you've accepted the Skald song for that turn, as there is no method to cancel it within your turn.
If the only way to replace is to do a stop of the first rage as you would normally stop it, then the entire FAQ could have been shorter. It could have just said you can only be under the effect of one rage at a time. You must stop the first one before starting the second one. No need to reference involuntary rages at all.
I'm starting to believe I should expect table variation in PFS and ask the GM before each session how they handle a typical use case.
Specifically, the barbarian is using her own rage, and her hit points start to get low. The skald decides to begin singing so as to ensure the barbarian continues to rage even if she falls unconscious. The skald starts singing on his turn, the barbarian can't actually switch over until the beginning of her turn, which is potentially an entire turn of enemy attacks.
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I think you are getting caught up on the free action. It doesn't take a free action to switch, you simply must be capable of taking that action on your own turn. My point was that an unconscious barbarian may not be capable of ending her own rage, nothing more.
All other abilities should work normally at the time they are applied, such as when the skald first starts singing. The barbarian would have a choice to accept inpired rage even though it is not her turn.
I think you are getting caught up on the free action. It doesn't take a free action to switch, you simply must be capable of taking that action on your own turn. My point was that an unconscious barbarian may not be capable of ending her own rage, nothing more.
All other abilities should work normally at the time they are applied, such as when the skald first starts singing. The barbarian would have a choice to accept inpired rage even though it is not her turn.
Ah, I see what you meant now. And presented that way, I agree. I.e. the character wouldn't have been able to make the decision on his turn normally.
Yes, you are right, I was getting caught up on the free action portion.
Thanks very much the help.