Investigator and eidetic memory

[Caide]

I'm confused on how this works. If I understand the rules correctly you can take 10 on a knowledge check as a standard action does eidetic allow you to bump it to a 20 without spending multiple rounds?

For example:

Enter into combat and I want to make a knowledge check to determine the monsters special abilities/weaknesses (normally you roll and get your reponse) however as I'm untrained I want to take 20 how do the rules and eidetic memory work.

[Claxon]

Are you talking about:

Quote:

Edetic Recollection (Su): An investigator can always choose to take 10 on any of his Knowledge checks, even if he's in immediate danger or distracted. An investigator may expend one use of inspiration to take 20 on a Knowledge skill check even if he's in immediate danger or distracted. An investigator must be at least 11th level to select this talent.

Taking 10 is not itself an action. You can take 10 on any skill check (except UMD) provided you are not in immediate danger or distracted. Taking 10 doesn't take an action, but you spend whatever action is required for the skill check as normal.

Edetic Recollection allows you to take 10 even when in danger or distracted on any Knowledge skill check.

He can instead choose to spend 1 use of Inspiration to instead take 20.

[CampinCarl9127]

Good find Claxon. I couldn't find what ability he was talking about (all I could find was a 3pp spell and a prestige class ability).

You can choose to take 10 on a knowledge check, or you can choose to roll normally, or you can choose to spend 1 inspiration point and take 20. There is no action associated with knowledge rolls.

[Caide]

Yes claxon that is the feat in question.

Currently my gm says that standard rules for taking 20 still apply.

Taking 20: When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you roll a d20 enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.

Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).

I agree with your interpretation of Edetic Recollection. He is saying all it allows me to do is to perform those actions even when in combat.

[CampinCarl9127]

I suppose that technically the ability doesn't state that taking 20 requires any less time than normal, but I very much doubt the intent of the ability is that it takes you hours in combat to make your knowledge check. Is the function of the ability allowing you to pull out your portable library and look through it while your friends are being murdered by a troll? How long do your combats normally last?

I would say that RAI is very clear. Inspiration points are a finite and precious resource, and using them in this manner is very balanced. You can take 20 with no further action required as long as you spend a point.

[Caide]

CampinCarl9127 - Our combats generally are at most 5 rounds so far. We have a rather good group and we are playing 14th level characters. I think your right as the intent of the feat is clear. I'm kind of hoping for a dev or someone to stumble over my post and help clarify if he's truly just being too technical or if its just a poorly worded feat.

[CampinCarl9127]

I highly doubt a dev is going to weigh in because the ability is very clear.

At the very least, if your GM won't change his mind, ask if you can select a different talent instead since you both have different understandings of how the talent works.

[Claxon]

Sure, it takes 20 times as long to Take 20 even while using this ability.

Of course....

Quote:

Action: Usually none. In most cases, a Knowledge check doesn't take an action (but see "Untrained," below).

20 * 0 = 0