Help me buid this genious ratfolk Unchained rogue (scout + poisoner + underground Chemist) ^^

[Metux]

Hello Guys,

I'm back with a new idea of a build.
After the mighty half orc skald and the undead slayer dhampir cleric, here is my little genious ratfolk :

So, first of all, we are creating a genious ratfolk:
With a 25 pts buy: 10 / 18 / 14 / 18 / 12 / 7
Racial traits:
- tinker : huge boosts to every important skills in this build
- darkvision :Well, it's a must have for a rogue!
- cornered fury :Way better than swarming if you have no ratfolk ally, also helps if you get cought while scouting or doing some solo work...
- Unnatural :Some defensive bonus against animals, if you don't have anything to do with handle animal just swap it. Extra 2CA against animal is good.
We'll also have something around 12 / 13 skills per level which is huge. I told you, this little rat has nothing to envy the brain in 'Pinky & The Brain' ^^.

As traits, we gonna grab tusked trait thanks to the adopted trait, and as second trait we want the one that gives +1 damage on sneak attaks (or the one which gives +1att on sneak attacks) and if you can get a drawback and no campaign trait, swap UMD to INT instead of CHA.

Like the Mighty great Half Orc, I ll start with the first 6lv.
Teaser: This genious will have the potentiel to do more than 100+ damage at 6th level without any magical item included,and with good improvements per level, so stay tuned!

Unchained Rogue, Underground Chemsist, Scout, Poisoner 1:
Feat(lv1) Sharpclaws, to grab 2 primary claws that adds to our bite attack which becomes a secondary attack on full attack.
Class: Finesse Training (Ex)
Class: Poison use
Class: Sneak attack 1D6+1

Attach a ratfolk tailblade to your tail so you got a 4th natural attack (also a secondary on full attack).
This tailblade will be poisoned before each fight to make sure we grant ourselves some extra options / threat.

At first level, if we are in a flanking position we already got a nice burst:
Claw +7 1D4+1D6+1,Claw +7 1D4+1D6+1, bite+2 1D3+1d6+1, tail +2 1D2+1d6+1

Unchained Rogue, Underground Chemsist, Scout, Poisoner 2:
- Rogue talent(Bomber) : Gives you 4bombs/day at the damage of your sneak damage: 1D6+1
- Chemical Weapons (Ex): You can draw alchemical items like weapons(this is really good), and grants +int as extra damage for bombs and alchemichal items. So bombs become 1D6+5 with a splash of 5. If you fight undead, your holy water actually do 2D6+5 with a splash of 5.

So at this level we got some nice ranged options, with bombs and alchemical items. We can't sneak attack with them, but they deal good damage thanks to the addition of the INT to damage. In surprise rounds, a flatflooted ranged tuched attack usually always aim for a CA of 10.

Unchained Rogue, Underground Chemsist, Scout, Poisoner 3:
- Feat(lv3): extra talent(ninjaTrick: Pressure points): We can start to do some good debuffs with 4 nat attacks
- Class : Finesse Training (Claws) Our primary claws now get our DEX to damage too.
- Class : Master Poisoner (Ex): This ability is awesome, you can swap the type of poisons, usually ingested and inhaled poisons are strong and cheap, so convert them to contact poison ! (+Craft bonus)
- Class : Sneak attack: 2D6+1 / bomb 2D6+5

Unchained Rogue, Underground Chemsist, Scout, Poisoner 4:
- Precise Splash Weapons (Ex): We can now sneak attack with Bombs and alchemical items, for a total of 4D6+6.
- Scout’s Charge (Ex) : A charge grants a sneak attack => synergizes well with charging hurler but costs 2 feats...
- Debilitating Injury (Ex) : Debuff like hell, if your first Sneak attack hit, you can choose your ennemy to get -4 AC versus all your next attack and stack rounds! The malus can be increased by debuffing dex too with pressure points. Or you can add some strengh malus if you think the target is gonna survive and would be able to retaliate.
- +1 Ability: Prolly dex.

Unchained Rogue, Underground Chemsist, Scout, Poisoner 4 / SnakeBiter 1:
- Feat(free): Unarmed strikes (1D4)
- Feat(lv5): Two weapon fighting
- Sneak attack: +1D6 => 3D6+1 / bombs 3D6+5
- Brawler's Cunning (Ex) : useless for us
- Martial training: also useless for us
- Dip : +2ref +2con +1bba

This dip now allows us to get 6 attack when doing a full attack, so more pressure points / Debiliatating injury stacks / damage.

Unchained Rogue, Underground Chemsist, Scout, Poisoner 5 / SnakeBiter 1:
- Sneak attack: 4D6+1 / Bombs 4D6+5
- Rogue edge's : dunno which skill to choose

At this point at range throw bombs that can deal 8D6+6 on sneak attack as ranged tuch and splashes for 5 damage.
And a full attack while flaking does:
Claw +11 1D4+4+4d6+1, Claw +11 1D4+4+4d6+1, Bite +6 1D3+4d6+1, Tail +6 1D2+4d6+1, Kick +6 1D4+4D6+1, Kick+6 1D4+4D6+1
If your first attack is made while invisible (+2 att and ennemy denied his dex), you debiliate really easily your ennemy for -4CA for all other attacks and you can at the end stack up to 6 pressure points debuff and increase the debiliate length, and your tail can also poison the ennemy.

I included any item in the build, but the Amulet of Mighty Fists is a must have. You can grant it agile for DEX to damage and improve all your attacks.

At this level we got a little genious monster with huge damage output, great debuff, some ranged options, and 68 skills points to invest to have fun outside of fights.
The SnakeBiter dip, is good because of the extra hp, bba, saves, and accelerates the sneak attack damage by 1 level (we got 4D6 at 6, instead of 7).
Actually any class that grants unmared strike can do the trick to add 2 extra attacks with two weapon fightning taken at the regular lv 5 feat).
For example A far Strike Monk can grant quick draw (Alchemical items can be drawn like weaponz in this build), an extra free feat, unarmed strike.
Warpriest can grant weapon focus, some minor blessing and castings, and unarmed strike feat with the right deity.

So what to you think about this little genious' build? Have any idea of improvements?

[Metux]

Ok, I got some new ideas for this build:

Instead of going snakebter at 5th level, we go dip as a white haired witch, to grab a primary haired attack with a reach, allowing us to grapple an ennemy witha free action based on our INT instead for STR.
This grapple doesn't grappe the witch, only the ennemy.

We loose compared to snakebiter:
- 1 bba
- 2hp hp difference,
- 2 ref, 2con
- 2 secondary attack with unarmed combat and two weapon fighting
- 1D6 sneak dice

We gain:
- 2 will
- A familiar which can be a valet to help crafting! or Alertness, some bonus (+2 to saves, or 3 to skills)
- Cantrips and first level spells (including the flavorful Alchemical Tinkering for ratfolks)
- Acces to a spell list for UMD
- A primary natural attack with reach, that can grapple as free action without grappling our genious ratfolk, thus debuffing even more
- A free feat because two weapon fightning is not needed anymore.
- We get some important extra skills as class skills, (fly, spellcraft, heal, knowledges arcana, history, nature and planes)

And we ll probably abuse this as much as possible:
hybridization-funnel

Can the witch use his hair at melee by this way? If we can't it won't be that good, because we won't be able to grapple while doing full attack.

[Metux]

Are you all fleeing because of his 7 charisma...
This should be his karma I guess :D

[claudekennilol]

I don't understand why you want natural attacks, ranged bombs, and TWF. Sure, you can kick/kick/claw/claw/bite/tail, but that's going to be at -2/-2/-5/-5/-5/-5. That's totally not optimal.

I like what you're doing up until 5. I don't know if the rest of your party are ratfolk, but if they aren't, there's a really cool feat in Dirty Tactics Toolbox for ratfolk. I forget what it's called, but it allows you to move into the square of a willing ally and lets you act as if they had the swarm racial trait. So you can flank more easily. But it also lets you act as though they had your teamwork feats. So you could pick that up, and say Outflank to get a +4 when flanking and Precise Strike to get another d6 of sneak attack dice. I'm not sure that goes with what you're trying to accomplish, but I'm not sure a level of brawler does either.

[shroudb]

Swarming
+
Scurring swarmer
+
Outflank
+
Menacing
=
Boom

[Metux]

@claudekennilol: Yes you are right, thats why I'm trying to find a good dip to get extra features. The white haired witch might be a good one. What do you think?(Did pro/cons in the 2nd post)
If we get this scurrying-swarmer at 5 and continue Unchained rogue, we would be able to get next teamwork feat at 7 only...

@shroudb: Actually I don't know if there will be another ratfolk in the party, that's why I chose cornered fury to get +2att & AC when injuried and 'alone'.
But the combo you mentionned is nice that's sure, its like having solo tactics of the inquisitors but requires some feats we don't have.

But if there is one more melee ratfolk in the team, it would be great to keep swarming!

The purpose of this char is his versatility and efficiency.
What I like in this character is that he can do lots of stuff, and quite well:
- Bombs / alchemichal weapons at distance.
- On sneaks, grants great debuff to shutdown an ennemy, or help the team get it down faster (Debilitating Injury (Ex) + pressure points)
- Some poison flavors and ability, its expensive, even if you create them yourself, but still, it s a good flavor and might sometime add extra options (infiltrations, etc).
- Can be a crazy fighter at melee too.
- Has so many skill points and flavor to enjoy outside of battles too.

I really like the WHW dip at 5 actually...
edit: Just found out that we can only grab up to small creatures if we are small... meh...

[shroudb]

@another ratfolk issue:

That's why you pick up scurring swarmer:

Quote:

Benefit(s): You can use your swarming racial trait to enter the square of any willing ally that is the same size as you or up to one size category larger, granting you the benefits of the swarming racial trait as if your ally were also a ratfolk with the swarming racial trait. Your ally gains no benefits from sharing its space with you unless it also has the swarming racial trait. Additionally, you treat any ally who shares its space with you as having the same teamwork feats that you do for the purpose of determining whether you gain a bonus from teamwork feats. Your ally doesn't gain any of the bonuses from these feats unless she actually has the teamwork feats. You and your ally's positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in a teamwork feat's description in order to gain the teamwork feat's listed bonus, but your ally is considered to be adjacent to you while you share her space for the purpose of determining whether you or your ally gains a benefit.

It's solo tactics PLUS bypassing the need for a second ratfilk. For all you care, even riding a dig allows you to benefit from swarming.

[Metux]

I am wondering something:

Can you with scurrying swarmer, start a charge and finish at an ally's position, thus getting charge bonus and flanking bonus?

Is there a conflict with the "you can't charge trough allies" ?

If we go scurrying swarmer and this charge thing works, we should probably drop scout archetype actually.

[shroudb]

it doesnt bypass the wording of needing a clear path to charge, so no, you can't charge into an ally occupied space as worded

[Metux]

Ok I changed some plans and considered scurrying-swarmer at our lv 3 feat.

I have a paladin in my team as front liner, so I ll probably stick with him to be able to flank most of the ennemies.

I will also remove scout archetype for bandit to get more acton during surprise rounds. My GM allowed me to get the goblin favored class to get more sneak attack damage(thus increasing bombs damage twice) during surprise round and before any one acted on the first round.

So at 5TH level, a dip in wizard diviner/foresight seems pretty good for this build. This way we always act in surprise rounds(with +1 init) where we get more actions, we also grab a pretty good pre-roll power at least 7 times a day, and a familier (which can be a valet to help us for crafting poisons). We ll also be able to scribe 1st level scrolls.

A hedgehog can grant us, with the wizard dip, a flat +4 to will saves, which can be interesting, or we can get the scorpion to get +4 initiative and being able to always access its poison (but the DC is low...). If the valet familiar is a small one (not a tiny) scurrying-swarmer will also be activated.

We loose some skill points for this dip but we get every knowledge, fly and spellcraft as class skills which is really nice for our character and worths a lot of skill points.

At lv 5 we still have this feat slot open.

[Kaboogy]

What you need is a level of urban barbarian\unchained barbarian\urban bloodrager. Not only does the rage help with your to-hit, it allows you to get a furious amulet of natural armor, which helps as well.