caster DC's and the iconics


Rules Questions


I am currently playing in two campaigns, a 16th level Cleric and a 17th level witch. I was looking at the Paizo Iconic stats for some guidance for these two, as it appears that whenever a saving throw is involved for the cleric's enemies they simply make it, and the witch needs to spend two or three rounds debuffing enemy saves for her most powerful attacks to work. I went looking to the iconics to see what their DCs are.

The iconics have significantly more powerful ability scores, and I think they're wrong.

According to Paizo, the characters were created using a 20 point buy. I'm taking my information from the iconic oracle at the link here: http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/iconic-characters/alhazara---iconic-orac le

Every one of these seems to be like this except for the cleric because she doesn't use a headband to increase her scores.

Here's Alahazra at first level:

Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 18. Charisma was boosted using her human bonus, and she has no gear listed that increases or penalizes any score, so she's consistent with a 20 point buy.

Then at 7th level:
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 21. Her 4th level ability score increase went into charisma, so she's at a 19, and she's got a headband of alluring charisma +2 in her gear, so that means she's fine with a 21.

At 12th level is where we start to go off the rails and I think she's calculated incorrectly.

Str 10, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 29.
She's had two big jumps. Dexterity, she has a belt. Charisma, her headband is now +6. Except that her new headband is stacking with her old headband or an application of Eagle's Splendor.

There were two natural ability score increases, 8th and 12th level. So that brings her natural charisma to 21 (since except for dex, none of her other scores increased). Wearing her old headband, that increased it to 23...so the new headband is stacking with the old headband.

I think her Charisma should be at a 27 with the headband, unless I'm missing something.


Korythalia wrote:
I was looking at the Paizo Iconic stats for some guidance for these two,

Well, there's your problem right there ;-).


The iconics were not well built. The original barbarian wasn't even legal.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Theoretically she could have spent 50k gp on a +2 inherent bonus to Charisma. But it's probably an error.


They also list the witch's hex DC's as 15 at 12th level. Assuming she has no intelligence bonus, at 12th level that's a 16.


ryric wrote:
Theoretically she could have spent 50k gp on a +2 inherent bonus to Charisma. But it's probably an error.

Not really. Her equipment already comes to around 90,000 gp, not counting the scrolls, wands, and miscellaneous things. The 55,000 gp tome would put her over the allotted wealth for a 12th level character, and she still wouldn't be legal.


There is no official write up for the iconic oracle. That might be part of the problem =P

Those are all player-created stuff.


Master of the Fallen Fortress module has her along with the alchemist, cavalier, inquisitor, summoner, and witch. But only at 1st level.


Jeraa wrote:
ryric wrote:
Theoretically she could have spent 50k gp on a +2 inherent bonus to Charisma. But it's probably an error.
Not really. Her equipment already comes to around 90,000 gp, not counting the scrolls, wands, and miscellaneous things. The 55,000 gp tome would put her over the allotted wealth for a 12th level character, and she still wouldn't be legal.

WBL isn't a rule, it's a guideline


The webpage you quoted lists the NPC Codex as its source, but she doesn't actually appear in there. Thus, this is just some random person's opinion on her as far as I can tell.

(not that Paizo is perfect when it comes to character blocks, either)

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