Hello all,
I need some help with a build. I have an sanctified slayer 8 that I am using pistols with and trying to use Gun twirling. The issue I am finding is a way to get consistent sneak attack.
Human Sanctified Slayer 8 (traits Fortune Favored,
H Point Blank Shot BPI: Exotic Weapon proficiency (Firearms), Gun smithing
1 Rapid Reload
3 Rapid Shot
5 WF Pistol
7 Dazzling Display
Slayer Talent
8- Grit- Amateur Gunslinger, Gun Twirling
Teamwork Feats
3- Coordinated Shot
6- Target of Opportunity
So the original idea was to use Gun twirling to get sneak attacks off, kill someone and regain the grit, rinse repeat.Any ideas to improve the build? How can I get SA more often?? 25 pt buy btw.
Until level 11 you suffer from the standard issue that ranged SA is very difficult to get. Lvl 11 and on you have improved invis as an inquisitor spell and that opens up a world of hurt. I am not a fan of using guns if your DM is actually making you deal with misfire and all the difficulty of dealing with black powder, advanced fire arms don't exist in any game I will play.
A longbow works far better than any gun. For that matter sanctified slayer can do lots of ranger weapon builds that are far better than guns. Level 1-7 is sword and board then start piling on the dex ignoring twf feats, which works very well with melee SA.
Don't try to get sneak attack with ranged weapons. It just isn't worth it.
The only method that will work well is Greater Invisibility, and by that time your enemies will often have ways of countering your invisibility.
Without the feint feats it doesn't even work well though. It's not reliable, because he will only get it on one attack each round, and requires him to spend a very limited pool of resources.
Sure, that lets him get a ranged sneak attack sometimes, but still isn't what I would consider reliable. Certainly not enough to build around if your goal is "ranged sneak attack build".
This is what I was afraid of. Would going straight inquistor be better for judgements and trade out dazzling for deadly aim?
Ok so the gist is I am not getting ranged sneak attack easily..... How can I improve the build.... ?
|
Ranged sneak attack usually comes down to 'you can see them, but they cannot see you'. That means invisibility, various means of obscuring vision (e.g. smoke/fog/snow/darkness) AND seeing through those, or sniping.
The obscure vision abilities are usually the most reliable because very few enemies will have 'snow sight'. If you can manage multiple forms of obstruction and vision you'll almost never have problems (e.g. Dark Stalker with fog vision is just mean).
Failing that I'd recommend sniping. Get a pair of greater sniping goggles and you can sneak attack from so far away that many enemies won't be able to overcome the distance penalties on their perception checks even if you aren't hiding. If you do the 'hide and shoot' bit you want the 'Master Sniper' feat to get off two shots before hiding again and various means to offset the -20 hide penalty (halfling swift as shadows, Expert Sniper feat, rogue stealthy sniper talent, greater sniping weapon property, et cetera).
Feint is still a standard action without heavy feat investment, no? So this build is only getting one sneak attack off every other round and on the off rounds you are not making any attacks?
The feat allows you to spend a grit to feint, so you are not having to use the Standard action to feint.
Ranged sneak attack usually comes down to 'you can see them, but they cannot see you'. That means invisibility, various means of obscuring vision (e.g. smoke/fog/snow/darkness) AND seeing through those, or sniping.
The obscure vision abilities are usually the most reliable because very few enemies will have 'snow sight'. If you can manage multiple forms of obstruction and vision you'll almost never have problems (e.g. Dark Stalker with fog vision is just mean).
Failing that I'd recommend sniping. Get a pair of greater sniping goggles and you can sneak attack from so far away that many enemies won't be able to overcome the distance penalties on their perception checks even if you aren't hiding. If you do the 'hide and shoot' bit you want the 'Master Sniper' feat to get off two shots before hiding again and various means to offset the -20 hide penalty (halfling swift as shadows, Expert Sniper feat, rogue stealthy sniper talent, greater sniping weapon property, et cetera).
I like the idea of dropping smoke and firing , sadly that would hurt my party, I guess for now I will stick with 1 turn gun twirling and hoping I drop something to get the grit back. Maybe take next 2 levels in fighter and grab dirty fighting, improved feint and greater feint?
Are you sure that is how the feat works? You spent the grit and can make a feint attempt at range instead of in melee, the feint attempt itself though is still a standard action without something else specifying it is a swift or free, is it not?
You are right and he's wrong.
You can spend 1 grit point to make a feint attempt using a one-handed firearm for which you have Weapon Focus (instead of a melee weapon). The target of this feint must be within 30 feet of you and be able to see you.
If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a one-handed firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.
The feat makes no comment about lowering the required action to feint.
Fog + Goz Mask can still be useful. Fog spells are, at times, great things to drop on the enemies (or at least part of them, especially archers). If you pick the right versions, you can obscure yourself while still leaving parts of the battlefield uncovered.
Or, talk to your party and see if they'd be open to working together on a fog tactic (getting Blind-fight or fogcutting lenses/Goz masks). A party that's organized enough to pull this off is pretty scary. Example: Large creatures effectively lose most benefits of their superior reach in fog, unless they have blindsight.
My bad, teachs me not to read closely. I have decided to go a different direction and grab the gunslinger feat and snap shot to be able to flank and sneak that way.
Edit: that doesn't work either, I might just need to scrap the build. Dear Lord this is more work than necessary.
My bad, teachs me not to read closely. I have decided to go a different direction and grab the gunslinger feat and snap shot to be able to flank and sneak that way.
I'm not sure what Gunslinger feat you're specifically referring to, but regardless you can't flank with ranged weapons. It's melee only.
Snapshot will allow you to threaten, and make attacks of opportunity. It will allow you to provide flanking to others, but you do not benefit from flanking. Sorry, this will not get you ranged sneak attack.
My bad, teachs me not to read closely. I have decided to go a different direction and grab the gunslinger feat and snap shot to be able to flank and sneak that way.I'm not sure what Gunslinger feat you're specifically referring to, but regardless you can't flank with ranged weapons. It's melee only.
Snapshot will allow you to threaten, and make attacks of opportunity. It will allow you to provide flanking to others, but you do not benefit from flanking. Sorry, this will not get you ranged sneak attack.
please see edit above, yes I am now aware it doesn't work. Reading the whole post does help ;-) But you are totally right.... bummer
Gunslinger
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4, Weapon Focus (any firearm), proficiency with any firearm.
Benefit: When you attack with a firearm, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Normal: Attacking with any kind of ranged weapon in a threatened square provokes attacks of opportunity.
|
You really don't need to scrap the build. You still have WIS to initiative, so at the very least you will be able to sneak attack at the beginning of combat while foes are flatfooted. Sneak Attack is not a core component of the damage for a Sanctified Slayer, it's just a nice bonus. Your main damage is coming from archery feats, studied target, deadly aim, and bane.
You really don't need to scrap the build. You still have WIS to initiative, so at the very least you will be able to sneak attack at the beginning of combat while foes are flatfooted. Sneak Attack is not a core component of the damage for a Sanctified Slayer, it's just a nice bonus. Your main damage is coming from archery feats, studied target, deadly aim, and bane.
That is true. I guess I need to take a step back and not be so concerned with the SA damage..... just wish it wasn't so hard. lol
Sniping and Oil of Silence could always be fun, when appropriate.