Unstable Mutagen question

[MeanMutton]

Do you need the alchemist class to take the Unstable Mutagen trait? RAW:

Unstable Mutagen

You discovered or were given a secret to make your mutagens more unstable—but also more potent.

Benefit: Once per day, you can create an unstable mutagen. It is like a normal mutagen in most ways, but also gains a single benefit or hindrance due to its instability. Roll 1d6 to determine the result of the instability.

d6 Result
1 The unstable mutagen lasts for 5 minutes per alchemist level.
2 The unstable mutagen lasts for 20 minutes per alchemist level.
3 The unstable mutagen does not grant a natural armor bonus.
4 The natural armor bonus granted by the mutagen increases by 2.
5 The penalty that the mutagen applies to the corresponding mental ability score increases by 2.
6 The unstable mutagen does not apply a penalty to the corresponding mental ability score.

[Dasrak]

The trait does not list any prerequisites or requirements, so there's no need to be an alchemist to take this trait and create an unstable mutagen. However, it won't do anything if you don't have alchemist levels, since the duration of mutagen is 10 minutes/alchemist level. If you don't have alchemist levels, the duration is 0 minutes and there is no effect.

[My Self]

Dasrak wrote:

If you don't have alchemist levels, the duration is 0 minutes and there is no effect.

Agreed with most of your answer, but if you have no Alchemist (or other mutation-granting) class levels, you don't have a duration of 0 minutes and no effect. You simply don't have a mutagen. Otherwise, you would qualify for things that require a mutagen and your d6 result might possibly be able to give you an effect (though not by itself).

[MeanMutton]

My Self wrote:

Dasrak wrote:

If you don't have alchemist levels, the duration is 0 minutes and there is no effect.

Agreed with most of your answer, but if you have no Alchemist (or other mutation-granting) class levels, you don't have a duration of 0 minutes and no effect. You simply don't have a mutagen. Otherwise, you would qualify for things that require a mutagen and your d6 result might possibly be able to give you an effect (though not by itself).

Dasrak's answer seems more convincing. This trait doesnt modify the mutagen ability. It grants you another one.

[Dasrak]

MeanMutton wrote:

Dasrak's answer seems more convincing. This trait doesnt modify the mutagen ability. It grants you another one.

The wording is unfortunately vague. I'd be inclined to rule in line with what My Self says since getting a second mutagen is much too good for a trait, but as written that appears to be exactly what it does.

[Cavall]

RAW it states it makes your mutagens more potent but unstable.

RAW states then that you must have one and that yiu have the option to make it unstable. Not that you get a free one.

There's no "extra one" because mutagens can be made several times a day with only the limit of an hour to make.

Since mutagens hour limit aren't altered here the only real "limit" is that you can only make ONE mutagen a day that's unstable.

It does not alter the limit of one allowed at a time either.

The traits actually fairly clear because of how clear mutagens are written, not so much the trait itself.

[Swordjockey]

This can also be used by the Mutation Warrior Fighter.

[fel_horfrost]

Or the brawler archetype with mutagen.... i think