| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Or more sensibly Demon hears PC's approaching and then summons the other demon so its ready when the pc's arrive, because creatures are not in stasis until the pc's open the door
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
At least one scenario has the (original, called) demon teleport out of the combat, summon a mate, and come back into the room from a different door.
Other than that, maybe this tactic is banking on the common misunderstanding/vagueness that Summon SLAs might be a standard action. I don't believe so, but it's a widespread idea.
|
Today when the BBEG's tactics said he uses Summon Swarm I quickly checked the spell listing for cast time. Saw it was 1 round, so I described him chanting and waving his hands. Guy with 2nd highest initiative, Chuffy Lickwound, Delayed Action since he wanted to get a sneak attack in, but the BBEG saw them coming up a trap door into his room. Reta Bigbad moves up to attack, rolls a natural 1. Poog tosses a firebolt, rolls a 7. Mogmerch realizes he used up all his bombs, so spends the round pulling out a gourd of fireburping and eating it. At this point the spell went off and a spider swarm showed up. I rolled init for the swarm, and it went right after the BBEG.
The BBEG's tactics and info did specifically call out that he merely watches the players through holes in the building. It also said on the 1st round of combat he used Summon Swarm. he did get lucky then. It was the attacks of opportunity from trying to turn into a bat and fly away that killed him.
|
When you summon a creature, you don't roll initiative for them. They go on the same initiative as the summoner. They do get a full set of actions on the round they are summoned.
|
|
Was trying to be a little lenient to the players by having the possibility they could go before the swarm. After all, they'd used up all their aoe stuff already in previous encounters. Didn't work, rolled the swarm's init and it went RIGHT after the BBEG.
I can understand wanting to be nice.
But please be careful when you completely change the rules of the game to do so.
|
|
I am, although there are sometimes rules I'm not 100% familiar with due to rarely getting players who use them and almost never playing something that uses them. For example I've only recently been reading further on the rules for non-lethal damage. In the past it's been "it's an option that nobody ever uses". Then I started playing kineticists and a LG monk who uses non-lethal against most foes. Suddenly the never used option becomes important to know.
Summon spells also fall into this category. Until yesterday I'd never seen a player who builds their character around summon spells. And today was one of the few things I've GMed where a summon spell is used by an enemy. In the past I've seen summons being done both ways, going on the caster's turn and having their own initiative. Usually it's done on the casting player's turn to streamline things though. Same for animal companions and familiars.
Me, I prefer having someone roll the initiative of their animal companion, phantom, or familiar if it's going to be aiding in combat. These are things with minds of their own. They also have different reflexes then the player's character. Thus a phantom or tiger animal companion may react faster then the spititualist or ranger/druid.
|
|
From the description of Summon Swarm:
If no living creatures are within its area, the swarm attacks or pursues the nearest creature as best it can. The caster has no control over its target or direction of travel.
The bolded part seems like pretty good evidence that you should roll initiative for the swarm. The summoner isn't controlling it. All they're doing is concentrating (maybe) too keep the swarm from dissipating.
|
|
Summoning is an additional option that can terribly change the difficulty of an encounter. I have summoned creature numerous times without an issue, and only a few times where the PCs stopped the monster. They usually stop the summoning NPC by being sneaky and me having to follow the written tactics and getting ganked hard for it.
In Mr. Myhre's example I have DMed thay scenario 11 times, and every time I tried she got off her summons just fine. If she wakes up early it can be very dangerous for the PCs as they are fighting the tough dog she brings a swarm on them. I have had a PC save the day by throwing the three legged turtle down since the swarm chases the closest creature buying time for the PCs.
Hell knights feast the BBEG has time to do it, but can fail often.
|
|
Keep in mind Kanebaenre that that is a creature's spell-like ability. Spells like Summon Monster or Summon Swarm work differently. A summoned Monster I always have go on the summoner's initiative, and they stick around for 1 minute per caster level (or defeat). A summoned Swarm I personally rule goes on it's own initiative since the caster has zero control over it. The swarm sticks around as long as the caster is concentrating, then 2 additional rounds.
|
I saw quite a bit of confusion in this post on the SLA summonings. I'll re-quote what Kanebaenre said, for different bolding:
Summon (Sp) A creature with the summon ability can summon other specific creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell, but it usually has only a limited chance of success (as specified in the creature’s entry). Roll d%: On a failure, no creature answers the summons. Summoned creatures automatically return whence they came after 1 hour. A creature summoned in this way cannot use any spells or spell-like abilities that require material components costing more than 1 gp unless those components are supplied, nor can it use its own summon ability for 1 hour. An appropriate spell level is given for each summoning ability for purposes of Will saves, caster level checks, and concentration checks. No experience points are awarded for defeating summoned monsters.
Format: 1/day—summon (level 4, 1 hezrou 35%); Location: Spell-Like Abilities.
Keep in mind that SLA's are a minimum of a Standard action, unless the referenced spell takes more time. Also note that all summoning spells except for Summon Swarm have the wording:
It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn.
However, considering that you must concentrate on the spell, I would have the swarm act after the concentration is done each round. This keeps with the summoned creatures go as soon as they are summoned rule, and doesn't interject your initiative unless your caster delays.
|
|
From the description of Summon Swarm:
If no living creatures are within its area, the swarm attacks or pursues the nearest creature as best it can. The caster has no control over its target or direction of travel.The bolded part seems like pretty good evidence that you should roll initiative for the swarm. The summoner isn't controlling it. All they're doing is concentrating (maybe) too keep the swarm from dissipating.
Not really. Sent matter its motivation or level of caster control. Summoned creatures go on the same initiative as the summoner.