-RoRL Spoilers- Killed a boss, need help with loot


Rise of the Runelords


So we go into this room and Mokmurian start's fogging us, I throw out dispels turning his casting off, which makes the fight a lot easier. Dispel Magic and it's greater version are amazing.

So after the fight the GM says, we weren't supposed to kill him, he was supposed to get away, but we fought hard and earned the spoils, so I'm asking you all for some advice.

I'm a Sorceress, and I'm the only one who can successfully utilize his spellbooks. The loot states that he has an extensive collection of spells in his books; all of the spells in the Core up to and including 6th level spells. How many books are there all together?


Core Rulebook Sorcerer/Wizard spells

20 cantrips - 20 pages
39 lvl 1 - 39 pages
51 lvl 2 - 102 pages
43 lvl 3 - 129 pages
42 lvl 4 - 168 pages
47 lvl 5 - 235 pages
47 lvl 6 - 282 pages

Total pages: 975 pages.
A standard spellbook has 100 pages worth of space for spells. In other words there would be at least 10 spellbooks, assuming standard size.

Hope it helps.

-Nearyn


Thank you Karzoug, also, you should really invest more time in minions because Mokmurian is a damned runt!


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Watch your tongue, insignificant one. Your champions have but removed a pawn, yet they think themselves poised for checkmate. Their foolishness shall be their undoing! I am The Claimer, I am the ruler of Shalast, no matter how many their victories, your champions shall always be as insects, in my pressence!

Mokmurian's death matters not. The journey will kill them long before they reach my realm, and should they survive so long, you will find I surround myself with far more than mere slave-caste giants with aspirations of magecraft!


You just wait Karzoug, the damned shall claim you, body and soul, and my allies shall help deliver you. Henceforth I will claim your realm as my own and achieve what you could not!


...and scene

Seriously though what is your GM talking about? You are totally supposed to kill him.


My GM said that Mokmurian was supposed to get away using a scroll of limited wish, then we'd encounter him again in Xin-Shalast; Claiming Xin-Shalast is an personal goal for my character.

Dark Archive

I guess your gm does his own spin on things?

Mokmumarian as written has no way of surviving since even if you just knock him out, Karzoug hijacks him to use him as mouth piece to taunt PCs after which he dies.


What I did for this instance and several other similar ones that come up throughout the remainder of Runelords is to do a trade-off with my players. I basically said "it's got all wizard spells up to 6th... if you don't make me do the math".

So the spellbooks became useful, not loot. The wizard player got to transcribe everything, but didn't get to sell books.

Sure, that's treasure-that-could-have-been but I tend to add encounters here and there, and nobody's hurting for treasure in my campaign.

Nearyn did the math, but sheesh. It just gets more annoying as spell levels go up.


I have a similar issue with my players. I built loads of background into the characterisation of Nualia and wanted her to escape so she could be a recurring baddy, but the party just nolbbled her pretty much straight away.

I was wondering, which of the BBEGs in the following chapters do you think should resurrect her?


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(I'm using vague terms in case of players reading more than they should.)

Only X. really knew about Nualia, and that was more of a "kindred spirit" thing, not boss/minion or any other relationship. X. might have told her sister, but I can't imagine the sister bothering with Nualia.

However, if you think that X. is interested enough, she could arrange for Nualia to be raised somehow and then send her on to either the end-game city or her sister (the latter is less likely, IMHO).

If you want to have Nualia come back as an undead of some sort, then you could always have it occur as part of some sort of "spontaneous evil animation/possession" situation. Or have X. behind it again.

In all cases, do remember to give Nualia some more class levels, so that she becomes a more credible threat even later on. There are some threads around in the RotR forum about which classes could be used in this case.


Don't forget, there's also the eternal template you can bestow on the BBEGs, so they can be "killed" and still be recurring enemies.

That said, I'm a sorcerer, so I don't mind copying the situational spells and selling off the collection. It'd actually make it easier since I wouldn't have to thumb through 10 books to find that one spell that could help in an emergency, but I've also got wondrous item creation, so the massive index of spells helps me out.


at 975 pages and Craft Wondrous Item, all you need do is craft a blessed book and copy over the tomes into it. Much more compact.


That's awesome, I've got access to the spell, plus I already meet crafting requirements. I also need to figure out the pricing for a pair of goggles of true seeing 3/day.

It's either
6 x 12 x 1800 = 129600 / (5/3) = 78,000 (rounded up) (Command Word)

or
6 x 12 x 2000 = 144000 / (5/3) = 86,500 (rounded up) (Use Activated/Continuous)


Not quite, since you've not factored in the M component cost to the market price of your goggles. 250 *100 = 25,000 gp additional construction cost and sales/market price.

Your continuous use math seems to factor in another round of 3/day pricing - the (5/3) element - which does not apply, and is factored in at 1 CL higher than required (12th instead of the minimum CL of 11th for true seeing as a 6th level cleric/wizard spell). (SL 6th x CL 11th x2,000 = 132,000 +25,000 =) 157,000 gp final price, construction cost of (132,000/2 +25,000) 86,000 gp requiring [normally] 157 days' of game time.

The closest published version of them are truesight goggles at 184,800 gp. They are continuous use and grant 1/day analyze dweomer, both effects at CL 11th. Without analyze dweomer, the price drops to the above figure of 157,000 gp.

3/day on command - taking a standard action to activate - is considerably cheaper. SL 6th x CL 11th x1,800 x0.6 (5/3) = 71,280 plus 12,500 M components (250 x50) for a sum of 83,780 gp. Construction cost of 41,840 gp and 84 days' game time. Considerably less expensive ... but considerably less worthwhile as well.

Presuming that you have access to the Scribe Scroll feat, you can craft a scroll of true seeing at CL 11th in 2 days at an out-of-pocket cost of 1,075 gp - the crafting cost of the 3/day goggles provides just shy of 39 scrolls of true seeing in fewer days of game time (76 days for 38 scrolls compared to the 84 days required for the 3/day goggles).

If you are casting true seeing so often that you need to consider having it up 3/day, you're probably better off crafting yourself 2 6th level pearls of power at an out-of-pocket cost of 36,000 gp (72 days' game time). Unlike the scrolls, the pearls can be used to recall any 6th level spell slots. Lastly, using pearls of power with the same construction cost budget as the 3/day goggles provides 23 doses of the M component.

All in all, I recommend the pearls of power route until you have squirreled away the construction cost of the all-day-long goggles.


Hang on; how are you copying their spells if you're a sorcerer? Isn't that something only wizards (and possibly arcanists) can do?


ShadowFighter88 wrote:
Hang on; how are you copying their spells if you're a sorcerer? Isn't that something only wizards (and possibly arcanists) can do?

Mnemonic Vestment

If the wearer is a spontaneous caster, once per day she may use a spell slot to cast a spell from a written source (such as a scroll or spellbook) as if she knew that spell. I can do this without consuming the written source.

Also! I'm looking at a cheap way to get true seeing because my GM will demand that I have the funds and prerequisites to create or buy the item.


BlingerBunny wrote:
ShadowFighter88 wrote:
Hang on; how are you copying their spells if you're a sorcerer? Isn't that something only wizards (and possibly arcanists) can do?

Mnemonic Vestment

If the wearer is a spontaneous caster, once per day she may use a spell slot to cast a spell from a written source (such as a scroll or spellbook) as if she knew that spell. I can do this without consuming the written source.

Also! I'm looking at a cheap way to get true seeing because my GM will demand that I have the funds and prerequisites to create or buy the item.

Huh, cool - haven't heard of that thing before (although I expect that even if I had, I'd have forgotten :P ).


Yeah I just ran the fight against Mokmurian two weeks ago for my PC's and the encounter is designed so that he dies and Karzuog does his little spiel. Table variance is a thing, in my game the party found an artifact belonging to Sorchen and went on a whole off-book side adventure, but given that your fight against Mok went exactly as planned I'm not sure why your GM said that. Like was he telling you things he was planning on doing? weird.

Doesn't really matter you have a big boatload of new spells to review! although it sounds like you can only use them once a day from that item huh? Maybe it's best to determine some that you think will see regular use so that you are ready when those situations come up.


I think he assumed Mokmurian was going to get away, because of the scroll of limited wish and the material component for it as well. Since it's over, and our GM didn't do Karzoug's little spiel, we're about as in the dark as we were before.

I want my character to be hunting for Xin-Shalast. Like.. She knows that there's a lost city and she wants it. It's total greed that drives her. She wants the city and she doesn't even have a plan of what to do when she has control of it.


Use speak with dead on Mokmurian. Or, depending on your casting ability, one of the several divination spells in that stack of spellbooks he just gifted the group. Hopefully you've used gentle repose on the runt-giant wizard.

If you've access to the following spells they could help: create treasure map on Mokmurian's corpse and page bound epiphany on Xin-Shalast if you know of the city by name, if not, something else you've learned about in character.

Otherwise, outside of the CRB spells you have access to, you'll be waiting until 13th-14th level / consulting with your group's divine caster to access other sources of information. Hopefully said divine caster is willing to cast speak with dead ...

Dark Archive

BlingerBunny wrote:

I think he assumed Mokmurian was going to get away, because of the scroll of limited wish and the material component for it as well. Since it's over, and our GM didn't do Karzoug's little spiel, we're about as in the dark as we were before.

I want my character to be hunting for Xin-Shalast. Like.. She knows that there's a lost city and she wants it. It's total greed that drives her. She wants the city and she doesn't even have a plan of what to do when she has control of it.

Now, this I'm not so sure about, but if I remember right, if he uses the scroll, he is supposed to use that scroll to get to surface and gather giants once more to fight PCs. After PCs arrive, Conna the Wise is supposed to rally half of the giants against him and then there is one more epic battle against him. But he isn't supposed to go to Xin Shalast and only reason you are supposed to know Karzoug exists is because he taunts through Mokmumarian ._. Otherwise you don't have a reason to search a way to defeat him.

I'm kinda wondering if your GM has cut out Karzoug completely from story or if he wanted to make him surprise last book villain and have Mokmumarian as red herring until final book... Either way doesn't really make sense to me


Well We managed to kill him before he could use the scroll, so he's dead, and none of the giants are aware of it, except for Conna, who helped us get into the lower sanctum where Mokmurian is.


CorvusMask wrote:
Now, this I'm not so sure about, but if I remember right, if he uses the scroll, he is supposed to use that scroll to get to surface and gather giants once more to fight PCs. After PCs arrive, Conna the Wise is supposed to rally half of the giants against him and then there is one more epic battle against him. But he isn't supposed to go to Xin Shalast and only reason you are supposed to know Karzoug exists is because he taunts through Mokmumarian ._. Otherwise you don't have a reason to search a way to defeat him.

Sounds about right, but the PCs can also learn the name of Karzoug through Conna, if they manage to meet her and not kill her before battling M. Even if they do get the info from M, all they know is there is this dude named Karzoug who is obviously not good and who expects the PCs to die sooner or later. Anything else regarding Karzoug can be learned from the library, at any rate.

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