Help with my Mystic Theurge?


Advice


I'm playing a campaign with some of my friends, with the party lacking in spellcasting classes. (A Monk 5/Druid 1, a Rogue 6, a Prankster Bard 3/Ranger 2 (his first character died), a Paladin 2/Fighter 4 and a Barbarian 5/Alchemist 1.) Then we have me, a Wizard 3/Oracle 3, going into Mystic Theurge, and i need help with what mystery and school of magic to choose, as well as to focus on wizard or oracle. So please help me by leaving advice and suggestions?


I'd say focus on Wizard, and use Cleric instead of Oracle. Samsaran using the alternate trait to steal things from the Summoner list might be nice.

INT/CHA is a hard combo to find, all I can pull off the top of my head is an alternate type of Aasimar.

Some of the bigger Oracle abilities (mysteries, curse, bonus spells) don't scale outside of Oracle. However, if you choose Oracle, be sure to pick up mysteries that provide a static bonus instead of a scaling one. Don't pick armor mysteries that you could cast yourself.

For schools of magic, consider looking into the elemental schools, which are pretty sweet. Some scale off of caster level instead of wizard level.

At this level, you'll be lacking in both casting and fighting ability.


Stick with straight wizard or cleric, pump your UMD, and buy a BUNCH of scrolls and wands. You'll be way more effective.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'll offer advice based on your build options (wiz/oracle). To start with, good choice of a prepared caster and spontaneous caster. It is a bit slower to start but it gives you greater flexibility overall. OK, on to the real advice:

First, know what to expect: You will not keep up with a single classed full caster. You can address the caster level discrepancy with a Wayfinder and Ioun Stone resonant powers (get a +1d4-1 caster level boost). Also, magical knack as a trait is a good idea.

Second, make up for your lost spell levels: Definitely invest in scrolls, wands, and UMD. By becoming a Mystic Theurge, you have made yourself into Mr(Ms) Flexible and you need to embrace that role.

Third, spell selection is important: Especially since you have an prepared arcane caster. Your role with most likely end up being battlefield control and buffing others. Capitalize on that and save the healing spells for emergencies and for wands after battle.

Fourth, class ability decisions: As a Wizard/Oracle/MT, you are flexible by nature and bound to that role by necessity. Go for an Elemental Schools! Void is my suggestion. It offers a static +2 save bonus vs spells/spell-likes AND allows a no save debuff that both you and your allies can capitalize on. It also run on CASTER level rather than wizard level. For the Oracle Mystery and Revelations... Flame seems good with Burning Magic. Cinder Dance and Gaze of Flames are good too. Spirit Vessel revelation from the Juju mystery is based on caster level as well.


I'd recommend the Theurge class from Kobold Press.


Thank you for advice everyone who helped so far,
I've decided to to take either Admixture subschool or Void school and either the Lore or Heavens mystery, I'm going to make him a Battlefield Controller/ Blaster, though i still need to choose my race, please leave suggestions for race and other mysteries/schools you recommend. (the group is pretty low on optimization, just saying).


Can't really go wrong with Aasimar, Peri-Blooded if allowed. You'll get a +2 Int and +2 Cha (great for both your classes). No real good choices for alternate favored class bonus here.

Half-elf could pick both Wizard and Oracle as their favored class. Wizard FC isn't so hot, but the extra spells from the Oracle FC is good.

I think its great that your table isn't really 'optimized'. You, however, should optimize to the best of your ability. A Mystic Theurge in this sort of group setting that is decently optimized will never give off the impression that they are 'inferior' to a full caster.

If you really want to go 'Blaster', I'm not sure Wizard/Oracle is a great way to go about it. If you are dead set on it, I'd say go for it. However, if you are open to a bit of advice on a different class combination ...

Sorcerer for your arcane casting. There are several reasons for this. Aside from the extra spell slots, your choice of bloodline will increase the amount of damage per die rolled (energy based if Draconic or any spell for Orc). You can even mimic some of the abilities and feel of a wizard if you opt to take the Arcane/Sage bloodine (if you are set on Int based casting). If you want to dabble in Words of Power (or go full into it), you ability to tailor damage spells to the situation is exceedingly flexible. Its the difference between rolling 5d6 for a fireball and 5d6+10 for a fireball. Oh, take a bloodline familiar in place of the 1st level bloodline power, unless it is really good. Protector archetype.

Shaman for your divine casting. It allows for a 'familiar', gives you hexes and has a similar 'feel' to it as the Oracle but allows a large toolbox of abilities.
Some examples:
Life Spirit -> fast healing familiar + life link hex + Protector familiar = You are an HP battery that passively recharges the party's hit points.
You gain access to Channel Energy that, while not useful in the long run, allows you to qualify for feats that work with Channel Energy. With 3 levels (2d6) and the Phylactery of Positive Healing, thats 4d6 healing 4+ times per day to the whole group. Don't want the channeling? See other options below.
You get access to other Hexes that are useful: Evil Eye, Chant, Fury, Healing, etc. Even some Witch Hexes that are amazing. Focus on the ones that do something even with a save or give you some permanent bonus.

I'm not sure how much you want to optimized the character, but I'll give you every bit of advice I can. Take or leave it as you will.

Don't like channeling? Stick with the Life Spirit anyway and take the variant channeling option for Farming, or Tyranny/Slavery. Your Barbarian will absolutely LOVE you for making it easy for him to 'Rage Cycle' by ignoring Fatigue and/or Exhaustion for one minute. Hint: Take 'Quick Channel' so that you don't spend your whole turn doing this.

Still want the Wizard feel? Go with the Variant Multiclass options for Wizard. It'll keep your familiar on track for abilities and even let you take the Void elemental school ability to the no save debuff (hint, works great with Evil Eye).

Want a better channel? Willing to wait a bit for it? I think you are a long term thinking since you are taking Mystic Theurge, so you might go for it. Take the variant multiclass option for Cleric. Net yourself spontaneous healing for your Shaman spells, a sprinkling of domain powers and (in the end) a Channel energy ability of a Cleric two levels lower than yourself. It'll be a separate pool from the Shaman Life Spirit, so variant channeling won't spill over.

When you eventually finish Mystic Theurge, You'll have 3 levels left to spend. You could take levels in Envoy of Balance. It might be worth only taking 9 levels in Mystic Theurge and 4 in Envoy to get the ability to spontaneous cast both heal and harm spells, and Channel positive and negative energy (at the same time). Totally up to you though...

Anyway ... that's a lot to digest. Enjoy!


Unlike a regular caster, it's pretty easy to mess up a Mystic Theurge. Boost your caster level at every opportunity possible, pick up spells that don't require saves or caster level checks, focus on a single spell school that both your lists use, and try to minimize the number of stats you use. Also, don't take classes with too many class level-dependent features, instead pick ones with spell level-dependent features, and maybe caster level-dependent features. Oracle/Sorcerer would be ideal except for the fact that you lose half a caster level to each of your classes by doing this. Wizard/Oracle is less powerful than a Wizard/Cleric because you gain 2nd level spells sooner and can take the prestige class sooner. Also, wisdom is a better secondary stat than charisma, because it'll boost your perception and will saves instead of social skills.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You have a couple options depending on which books your game is using.

Inner Sea Magic Excerpt: Due to your membership in a spellcasting guild (and Fame score of 35) you gain a +3 bonus to your caster level with one spellcasting class of your choice and a +1 bonus to your caster level with another spellcasting class (up to a maximum of your character level). These bonuses grant you additional spells known and spells per day for your modified caster level.
Ravingdork even broke down in a forum discussion once how a player was realistically able to have the necessary fame required to benefit from Esoteric Training by the time they took their first level in Mystic Theurge.

Especially once this ability has been paired with the Magical Knack trait will net you a full caster progression with one class. The other will be short one level of spells on average, and a caster level of 1 or 2 lower (but ultimately makes up for the loss with its versatility.

Another option, as some people have mentioned, is in regards to being divided between two casting stats.
You can always look into the sorcerer bloodlines Empyreal and Sage.
This would allow you to mix and match your primary stat modifiers in order to balance whatever your divine caster is. Int, Wis, Cha are all covered.

A third option is to transform your secondary caster stat into one that substitutes another stat for you.
Oracle is a great example. By dipping into Lore, Nature or Lunar you can utilize your Charisma in place of your Dexterity, allowing you to divide your stats between a primary casting modifier and your new "Dex" score which now also doubles as your secondary spell modifier.
Depending on how liberal your DM is you could also look into taking Agent of the Grave as your 7th level class, once you've taken a level in Mystic Theurge to boost those caster levels high enough to nab Animate Dead on your list. (This all hinges on using the Esoteric Training ability)
Now your Charisma can be utilized to give you bonus hit points in place of your Constitution.

Ioun Stones, Varisian Tattoos (for certain schools of magic), and a ton of other abilities can all be used to inflate your caster level as well.

Hope this all helps!


Also...

There's always the Magaambyan Arcanist to consider as well.
It kind of goes against the concept of a Mystic Theurge, and I tried to stay away from just telling you to "play something else" because I still think that (especially with the above suggestions) that a Mystic Theurge can be perfectly viable.

Throwing druid spells onto your list, as well as the various thematic abilities that it lends to a good aligned caster, has always been one of my favorites.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Help with my Mystic Theurge? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice