I have been coming the boards for along time, and have had a lot of my questions answered. I have noticed a lot of people posting and sharing their builds, including the feats they take, equipment, etc. Also the character by wealth lvl has been discussed too.
This leads me to one of the biggest questions I have been pondering for along time. How does PC's get all of their so called 'specific magic items' they want for their ideal build. I know PC's can take crafting feats and as long as they have the proper spells they can craft the magic items themselves for half the cost. But what if no one in their party wants to do this. How do the characters then get all their specific magic equipment.
I always thought the items in the shops hand to be randomly generated. I know that GM's will occasionally give their PC's a specific magic item they want, but not all the time. If the GM gives their players everything they want, I think it takes the fun out of the game.
When character are adventuring and doing their dungeon crawls, isn't the equipment they find pretty much random and tailored toward their enemies and not them. Come on if a GM starts placing specific equipment the character wants throughout all their dungeon travels, I find this concept very absurd. I know the characters can sell want they don't want for adventuring, but by pathfinder rules they only get half of what it is worth. Which to me limits the specific items they can get even more.
So my question again how does these so call min/maxed PCs on paper actually get all their ideal equipment through out the game they are played in so easily.
Go to a city with spellcasting services available and looking NPC with a crafting feat and pay to have it made.
True, but aren't they limited by time it takes to make the item, and also don't you still have to pay full price. Again PC's can sell the stuff they find through adventuring and raise funds, but this is capped by the wealth by lvl system if a GM adheres to this. And if they sell the stuff they don't want they only get half of what it is worth. This pretty much means the specific equipment they get will be limited. I don't think a player who min/maxs will accept this.
In PFS you can use prestige points to get the items you want specifically.
In a normal game, from the gamemastery guide:
"Base Value and Purchase Limit: This section lists the community's base value for available magic items in gp. There is a 75% chance that any item of this value or lower can be found for sale in the community with little effort. If an item is not available, a new check to determine if the item has become available can be made in 1 week."
Metropolis - 16,000 gp
This covers most basic purchases. You can also request a specific item be made for you *gasp* before you desperately need it, metropolis hop to get the randomly generated items, or just take the crafting feats and do it yourself.
In PFS you can use prestige points to get the items you want specifically.In a normal game, from the gamemastery guide:
"Base Value and Purchase Limit: This section lists the community's base value for available magic items in gp. There is a 75% chance that any item of this value or lower can be found for sale in the community with little effort. If an item is not available, a new check to determine if the item has become available can be made in 1 week."
Metropolis - 16,000 gp
This covers most basic purchases. You can also request a specific item be made for you *gasp* before you desperately need it, metropolis hop to get the randomly generated items, or just take the crafting feats and do it yourself.
Yeah, but what about the items that go up to 20,000 gp and more and you can't find a city or settlement that goes up to this gp limit. And lets face it by 10th lvl characters are going to start wanting specific magic equipment well past a 20,000 gp lvl and I doubt they are going to take crafting feats to get them, because this would ruin their build.
Worth mentioning that the vast majority of magic items used in builds are competely generic, 'big 6' items that don't need to be specifically tailored to a build at all. If you aren't providing these items, the disparity between optimal and sub-optimal class builds actually widens, as the relative number gap increases.
If magic item availability is very strict, then a build reliant on a specific magic item is likely a poor match for a campaign. Similarly, choosing a large sized mounted archer for a claustrophobic dungeon warrens campaign is a poor match. This should be pretty self-evident.
Yeah, but what about the items that go up to 20,000 gp and more and you can't find a city or settlement that goes up to this gp limit. And lets face it by 10th lvl characters are going to start wanting specific magic equipment well past a 20,000 gp lvl and I doubt they are going to take crafting feats to get them, because this would ruin their build.
In PFS you can use prestige points to get the items you want specifically.In a normal game, from the gamemastery guide:
"Base Value and Purchase Limit: This section lists the community's base value for available magic items in gp. There is a 75% chance that any item of this value or lower can be found for sale in the community with little effort. If an item is not available, a new check to determine if the item has become available can be made in 1 week."
Metropolis - 16,000 gp
This covers most basic purchases. You can also request a specific item be made for you *gasp* before you desperately need it, metropolis hop to get the randomly generated items, or just take the crafting feats and do it yourself.
By 10th level an average party has access to teleport and/or plane shift for free and thus metropolis-hop across the multiverse until they either find the item or find someone willing to make it for them. This is really not a big deal.
Generally speaking, only martial classes need access to very expensive specific items (high enhancement bonus weapons and armour) and/or lack the means to easily procure them (teleport, craft feats). If you as a GM aren't providing a way for these classes to get these items, you are only helping to widen the gap between casters and martials at high levels. Why would you want to do this?
Finally, your last comment is a hyperbole. By level 10 a group of players is likely to realise the necessity for a few crafting feats if you are being highly restrictive with availability. Almost all full casters have a great deal of feats to spare and are hardly 'ruining their build' by picking a few up --- hell, an optimal full caster build should be taking those feats in the first place!
Worth mentioning that the vast majority of magic items used in builds are competely generic, 'big 6' items that don't need to be specifically tailored to a build at all. If you aren't providing these items, the disparity between optimal and sub-optimal class builds actually widens, as the relative number gap increases.
If magic item availability is very strict, then a build reliant on a specific magic item is likely a poor match for a campaign. Similarly, choosing a large sized mounted archer for a claustrophobic dungeon warrens campaign is a poor match. This should be pretty self-evident.
True, thank you for replying to the thread I started. Its just I see all the min/maxed builds that have very specific magic equipment, still within in the character by wealth lvl of course, and I can't help but scratch my head and think how do they actually get this stuff throughout their campaign. These builds are awesome by the numbers, but when actually played out, I just don't see them getting all their fancy equipment they want, other than a very generous GM. Which in my opinion would be very foolish and takes the fun out of the game.
Not a gm, I play a paladin in Rise of the Runelords. My GM is fair though. Right now my party consists of me, a regular paladin, a stonelord paladin, a gunslinger, a barbarian, and a ranger and we did have a sorcerer, but he hand to drop out due him getting a new job. We are currently starting the 4th chapter in the rise of the runlords campaign. No one in the group wants to take crafting feat. Our GM does allow us to have some down time every once in awhile to stuff like retrain, hunt for specific magic items, and lvl up if some one missed out on a couple of sessions.
No worries, hopefully you can see a few ways in which you can acquire the items you need. It's always worth keeping in mind: no build survives contact with a campaign. An optimised build is exactly that: a build that assumes optimal circumstances. Pathfinder is a living game and of course you will be forced to adapt if you don't access to optimal circumstances. However, very few builds are utterly reliant on a specific magic item to function.
Our GM does allow us to have some down time every once in awhile to stuff like retrain, hunt for specific magic items, and lvl up if some one missed out on a couple of sessions.
If he is giving you downtime, you can always go to magnimar and ask for a specific magic item to be made for you. Rise of the Runelords has built-in downtime so this shouldn't be too big of an issue, especially as you continue to level.
Furthermore, the AP itself gives you plenty of big 6 items.
It's unfortunate you don't have an arcane caster in your party anymore. Rise of the Runelords is a Wizard's perfect dream especially!
Social skills. Make friends with craftsman NPC's that you can commission special works from. Make friends with merchant guilds that can do the 'city hopping' for you.
and I doubt they are going to take crafting feats to get them, because this would ruin their build.... unless the campaign is moving at a prohibitively fast pace craft wondrous item is one of the most powerful feats in the game. The idea that not one person in the party would be willing to spend one feat to get it blows my mind. Unless of course, they take leadership. In which case they get all the crafting feats in a nice little cohort package.
If Leadership is allowed, a lot of people disallow cohorts from crafting (we are one of those groups)-the PC doesn't get to make the cohort after all (its an NPC).