Alchemist's Spell Knowledge. Does that mean I can make extract of it too?

[Zwordsman]

Howdy.
The alchemist discovery
Spell Knowledge
Benefit(s) Select a single spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least 2 levels lower than your highest-level extract known. You can prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell. Preparing the spell uses up an extract slot 1 level higher than the spell's level. Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based. You're considered to have this spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites, spell completion items, and spell trigger items.

So this lets me cast it as a spell. But does anyone know of any way to turn this into an extract?
It is an awesome discovery that lets me get caster level, and things like arcane strike..

So... Does this allow me to make extracts of it?

Does the "considered to have the spell on your spell list for purposes of prereqs" portion mean.. it counts as the prereq to make an extract of it?

I sorta read it as a prereq.. You have to have the spell on the list to cast the spell, Just like any other caster's spell list to learn it. It sort of a same situation as a feat's prereq. You need those prior feats to learn this feat. You need the spell on the spell/extract list to learn it.
Or am I reading too into the original English of the word prereq?

It sort of looks like I have the prereq of having the spell on my spell list. So I can then find a wizard or scroll with said spell, and pay for all the costs of adding it to my formulae book.

On the balance wise I don't think it is that much more troublesome than already being able to cast the spell, or brew it as a potion. Other than it being cost free, up to level 4 (instead of 3). But Alchemists are already about handing out spells like candy potions for free.

So can someone corrrect or confirm?

Edit: extracts list they are made similiar to potions. and potions have prereq of the spell.. So I'm not sure if that has any interaction in this. It seems to echo the idea though. so I'm wondering if it would count

Edit: Example.
I take shocking grasp with this. I can cast shocking grasp (using extracts per day).
Could I prepare an extract of shocking grasp? (Mind you, if I drank it I would automatically be the target of the damage. Or whoever drank it if I had infusion discovery)

[Snively]

I think it doesn't quite work like that.

The "Considered to have the spell on your list" means you don't. But for things with prereqs, like Magic item Creation, you can now make those items. You don't make an Extract of the spell when you use the extract slot, you instead "prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell" - like a Wizard.

On the plus side, you can meta-magic the spell, so if you wanted your alchemist to cast a Lightening Bolt here's your chance. Also, since it's using a higher slot, the DC to dispel would be 1 higher.

Also lets you skip UMD for using items with this spell, so you can wand it to your hearts content.

The extract "Universal Formula" may be a way around it, with GM permission. Of course, with GM permission, they may allow you to choose a spell from ANY list and consider it an extract recipie and not a spell to cast. Talk to your GM is my advice.

[Joesi]

I don't see the point of doing so unless it was somehow abused with a powerful spell (which I think there might be little-to-none of, considering it can only be a spell of 4th level or lower), in which case a GM should disallow it.

That said, if there was some reason that wasn't too strong, a GM should allow it if it was a spell that has an appropriate target and range, although the description or rules seem to clearly imply it should just be cast like a regular spell.

Generally the spell would have to be a self spell or touched creature for it to be viable as an extract. Shocking grasp would meet that (although like you said would be rather nonsensical to use as an extract short of touch injection or something). Did you consider just having it in potion form instead?

[Zwordsman]

It's mostly to use with an injection or syringe spear.
Love the idea of one of the touch attacks in there. Though extract level 2.. that one with the poisoned waters that does stat damage is also an extremely good choice, and already valid for this idea (and far more efficient in usage). So is skinsend (though someone has to finish him off before it's next turn or it can just put its skin back on).. Few other good choices too. Potion of poly purpose pancea is also valid (potion not extract, due to potions' choices being set upon brewing where as extracts are set upon imbibing)

Injection spear can be pretty strong. since I could set it off with every hit. In exchange there are no critting with whatevers being injected and the reloading takes a very long time.
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Yeah potions work. I was just trying to figure out a way to use it in a non normal money amount game.
Plus it is just a bit cooler? I think to use extracts vs potions.

The potion version works just fine for the ideas. Its also for me to replicate a specific character from an anime.

Outside of the injection spear I don't remotely see an extract trick that is amazing. Except possible dimension door. Haven't compared that agianst the rules for extracts yet. but it wouldn'tcome online until level 6 extracts so at that level not a terribly big deal compared to all the other stuff.
Though I'm sure the team mates would love a "escape" potion

[Joesi]

Zwordsman wrote:

Love the idea of one of the touch attacks in there. Though extract level 2.. that one with the poisoned waters that does stat damage is also an extremely good choice, and already valid for this idea (and far more efficient in usage).

Water of Maddening is expensive though. It has a 250 gp material requirement, which in my opinion is totally unnecessary. The ability damage can't kill, and requires a failed fort save to work, which is generally considered to be an easy save for most enemies to make.

Zwordsman wrote:

So is skinsend (though someone has to finish him off before it's next turn or it can just put its skin back on).. Few other good choices too. Potion of poly purpose pancea is also valid (potion not extract, due to potions' choices being set upon brewing where as extracts are set upon imbibing)

Polypurpose Panacea is a self spell so it can't be made into a potion. Most GMs shouldn't allow it nor Skinsend anyway, since the fact there's no save is too abusive and an oversight of the rules. Even if a GM does allow Skinsend though, it won't kill the target, but rather cut their remaining HP in half and give them a bunch of immunities. Animated skins do not die if the corresponding body dies. That said, it is still possible to instantly kill a target using skinsend, such as by dispelling the animated skin.

Zwordsman wrote:

Yeah potions work. I was just trying to figure out a way to use it in a non normal money amount game.

Drugs are generally rather cheap. I think that they're not intended to be weaponized though, but it's probably not too big of a deal as long as it's used in syringe spear or touch injection compared to just applying them like a poison to any weapon.

Zwordsman wrote:

Outside of the injection spear I don't remotely see an extract trick that is amazing. Except possible dimension door. Haven't compared that agianst the rules for extracts yet. but it wouldn'tcome online until level 6 extracts so at that level not a terribly big deal compared to all the other stuff.

Though I'm sure the team mates would love a "escape" potion

Dimension Door isn't an alchemist spell. Personally I've been curious about using a potion of dimension door with Alchemical Allocation though. It seems like it could be rules-allowed, as long as a GM allowed special-class—crafted (namely summoner-crafted) potions — which is a big "if", since it's rather cheesy/abusive to do.

If you're looking for cool alchemist powers, Alchemical Allocation is really great if you're not already aware of it. You could get a potion of Barkskin CL 8,12 or 16 (depending what GM allows), Magic fang (CL 10,15, or 20), or something like Shield of Faith or Heroism. Utility spells like fly,burrow, neutralize poison, remove curse, and more can also be useful, among others.