Lesser Beast Totem - Rules Clarifications on Claw Attacks?

[elcman]

I've read through other posts about this and I need some clarification:

• If I move then attack, I get one claw.
  
• If I do a full round attack, I get two claws.
  
• Natural Weapons are "not iterative" meaning past 6th, I can't get another 2 x 2 claw swipe.
  

So, if I get in close or, eventually pounce, I get 1d6 + Total Enraged Strength (+6) + Power Attack per claw (+2/4 Levels). Wow! And this could possibly be available at level 2.

But past 6th level, I still only get 2 claws with a full round attack?

So, a little RAW around Claw Attacks:

Natural Attacks, Universal Monster Rules:

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.

The Primary Attack is what is mentioned at the beginning of this post, but Secondary Attacks look a lot like a Player's second attack at 6th level.

Secondary Attacks are if you use a weapon and a claw, but it seems like you should be able to get an iterative attack if you're positioned correctly?

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

Correct. You do not get iterative attacks with natural weapons.

You can get an iterative attack and then use a natural attack as a secondary.

[Claxon]

Nope. You can only use each natural attack once per round, and if you move you can only make one attack.

No "little raw around".

Using a weapon converts natural attacks to secondary natural attacks, which only changes by reducing your to hit by 5 and giving you half strength damage on each natural attack.

They way to make natural attacks good is to find way to add several other natural attacks. Like a bite. And a gore. Or hooves if you take a ragebred race.

Edit: Unless when you said iterative you mean iterative weapon attack, which then yes you do get that. But only one a full attack. And you still only get 1 attack with each natural attack.

And don't forget you can't use natural attacks on any limbs that you use to make weapon attacks.

So if you attack with a greatsword, you can't use your claws.

[elcman]

Ok! That works for me!

Yeah, I'm wielding a greatsword in this case, but it's also a dancing greatsword, so before I engaged, I burn a round to make it dancing and charge in with natural weapons with the dancing sword at my side.

At least, uh, it sounds more dramatic than it actually is. With Pounce, though, this could be a lot of fun.

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

You'll honestly probably do more damage with just a greatsword. Remember that the dancing weapon uses your BAB and its enhancement bonuses, but doesn't get your strength bonus, power attack bonus (or penalty) or anything else you have that increases attack or damage. Not to mention losing the standard action to activate it.

[LazarX]

Claxon wrote:

Nope. You can only use each natural attack once per round, and if you move you can only make one attack.

No "little raw around".

Using a weapon converts natural attacks to secondary natural attacks, which only changes by reducing your to hit by 5 and giving you half strength damage on each natural attack.

Complication: If the OP uses a hand or two to wield a weapon, those hand or two are not available to make claw attacks in the same phase.

[elcman]

Another question on this... Activating the Dancing Sword pre-engagement and storming in.

If I do my attacks, can I grab the weapon as a free action and perform an iterative attack? This is totally pushing it, but I might as well ask. Or can Natural Attacks only be secondary and only used after a weapon?

[Nefreet]

"Grabbing" (as in, "Manipulating an Object") is usually at least a move action.

[Chess Pwn]

and no, if you've used a hand to make a claw attack it is unusable to make weapon attacks with. Thus even if allowed, you couldn't claw and then grab the greatsword and swing with it.

[Claxon]

elcman wrote:

Another question on this... Activating the Dancing Sword pre-engagement and storming in.

If I do my attacks, can I grab the weapon as a free action and perform an iterative attack? This is totally pushing it, but I might as well ask. Or can Natural Attacks only be secondary and only used after a weapon?

As I said previously, if you use a limb to make a weapon attack, you cannot then use it to make natural attacks, or vice versa.

So using claws means you can't use your greatsword, using your greastword means you can't use your claws. Even if the greatsword was initially floating free it doesn't matter. You have expended the allotted amount of action either using greatsword (with iteratives if available) or using your claws; doing one prevents the other.

*Please note that greatsword requires two hands, this changes a bit if you have one handed weapons instead because you could claw with one hand and sword (with iteratives) in the other. You could not wield the one handed sword in two hands if you used one of the hands to attack with your claw.

[elcman]

Ok, that makes sense. I figured iterative attacks would be able to get past it, but if I attack with that hand, it can't grab a weapon, even if it is a free action to do so.

:D

Just making sure!

[Claxon]

elcman wrote:

Ok, that makes sense. I figured iterative attacks would be able to get past it, but if I attack with that hand, it can't grab a weapon, even if it is a free action to do so.

:D

Just making sure!

Oh you could grab a weapon, you just couldn't make an attack with that weapon if you've already attacked with a natural attack on that arm (like your claws).