Grandmaster Torch was framed....explain how.


Pathfinder Society

Dark Archive 1/5

It is obvious that the deceverite framed Grandmaster Torch. Only I am yet to figure out how. Perhaps this pernicious plot can be exposed and the Shadow Lodge restored.

I look forward to hearing your leads.

Silver Crusade 2/5 * Venture-Agent, Florida—Longwood

Kinda hard to frame him when his last act as a VC is to say "Suckers" and run off. Then his first action in the next adventure he pops up in is to say "Hello, suckers, you want my information it'll cost you."

Edit: Okay, I'm paraphrasing, but that was the feeling and general consensus from my area.

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

doombots dopplegangers

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I blame Grandmaster Torch being framed on Grandmaster Torch.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

His exit from the Society was so ham-handed and out of character (IMO) that is must be part of a larger stratagem, but for the life of me I can't figure out what.

Destiny of the Sands:
Though it has something to do with the sage jewels, obviously.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic

The Decimverate forced him to accept a position as factionhead of the Shadow Lodge.

The two main goals of the faction were:
* Get rid of rogue Shadow Lodge members.
* Make sure the Decimverate treats pathfinder agents properly.

The first goal was accomplished by killing the most powerful rogue shadow lodge agent in a way that screamed "You're not safe anywhere and noone can protect you from my wrath!". Grand Master Torch send a powerful message, cause there have been no sightings of rogue shadowlodge members since.

The second goal was a fluke anyway. The Decimverate appointed someone to make sure they treated their agents right? That doesn't make much sense. To make matters worse, they appointed one of the most notorious information dealers to do this? Even less sense.

IMHO GMT did the bidding of the Decemvirate and everyone with the proper clearance level knew this. Lower level agents were kept out of the loop for a reason.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't think Torch was framed, he was fooled! And I suspect he might return...

Spoilers from a bunch of GMT scenarios:

Wild Speculation
--------------------
GMT was a man with an identify before the Grand Lodge was involved. After the incidents that lead to him being disavowed by the Society (Destiny of the Sands #2), Torch initially set out on a path of revenge, to dismantle the very organization that burned him. But as time passed, he found that despite the corruption of the organization, some of it's uninformed people were worth protecting.

As he started his new life from the shadows, he met more like-minded individuals, people from all walks of life throughout the Inner Sea that had been scorned by the Society. These included various thugs, mercenaries, and members of the Aspis Consortium. Marketing himself as a fixer, he worked his way up over the years, networking more and more until something very unexpected happened.

The Society found him. In Silent Tide the very organization that so wrongfully burned him came grovelling for help. And they couldn't even bring themselves to send their higher level agents, instead sending initiates to speak to the former Pathfinder. This meant one of two things to GMT. Either someone within the Society was aware of his identity, and was doing this as an insult. Or the Society had forgotten he even existed. So he played the gamble, and throughout Season 1, he continued to help the Society, doing so again in The Many Favors of GMT. Confident that his identity was concealed, he was content to gather information on the Society from the shadows and collect favors owed from former allies.

During Season 2, as the Shadow Lodge was revealed, Torch continued to stick to the sidelines. Watching the Spider's plans unravel as she battled head on with the Society (Shadow's Last Stand #1, #2). And he was content to do so, until an attempt was made on his life by the Red Mantis Assassins in The Mantis's Prey--assassins hired by the Shadow Lodge. After that failed attempt, he realized that this Shadow Lodge would be a problem. And rather than exterminating them, he chose a different play--filling the vacancy left by the Spider's disappearance. So at the start of Season 3, pulling on his strings from the underworld, he slid into the role of Faction Leader for the infamous Shadow Lodge.

It was during Season 4 that things started to go sideways for GMT. The powers that be, in accordance with the wishes of a vocal public, decided to reduce the number of available factions, cutting two out by the end of the year. The Shadow Lodge drew a short straw (along with the now defunct Lantern Lodge) and so a climatic close was written. In Rivalry's End the Spider (who escaped during #2-24) returned to again plague Torch. And this time, he would have his revenge. Using Pathfinders to do the heavy lifting, he had The Spider (real name Dorianna Ouidda) abducted from her establishment in Riddleport and delivered to her. He then used the opportunity to acquire or confirm a piece of condemning information against the Decemvirate and executed the only other person who knew of it's existence--the Spider herself. Using his bodyguards as a distraction, Torch escaped, once again free from the thumb of the Pathfinders and working to improve his station in life.

Unfortunately, GMT was fooled by the Decimvirate. Given false leads that implicated the Spider was in possession of certain information. Information that of course was fabricated. He was given false hope that salvation would finally be his. Clever positioning of a high level Society agent who underwent magical reconstruction allowed "Dorianna" to be found and served up to Torch on a silver platter. And blinded by the opportunity, he failed to see it for what it was. An elaborate ruse that caused Torch to overplay his hand. After Torch fled and the Pathfinder's reported the slaying, the high level agent was wished back to life, and happily reported that GMT took the bait. Now Torch is again a man without a country. Self-burned from the Society and unheard of since Season 5.

In the intervening year he's discovered that the information he gathered from this Spider was false, as was her demise. He's realizing that he's again back to living in the shadows and scrounging for scraps. But that's OK. That's where GMT thrives. He never needed the Society in the first place and he doesn't now.

2/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I always imagined one of the Decemberate died and Torch is their replacement but he had to ruin his reputation as a final test to get the job.

1/5

I did it. In the Grand Lodge with a tuna fish sandwich.

Oh wait I thought this was the thread on who killed Drandle Dreng.

Grand Lodge 4/5

blackbloodtroll wrote:
I blame Grandmaster Torch being framed on Grandmaster Torch.

Hard to frame someone whose every action screamed "I am untrustworthy."

School of Secrets:
Heck, even 17 years ago, he was considered an untrustworthy security risk by a 'tween.

Grand Lodge 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
kinevon wrote:
Hard to frame someone whose every action screamed "I am untrustworthy."

Don't you mean "laughably easy"?

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Hard to frame someone whose every action screamed "I am untrustworthy."
Don't you mean "laughably easy"?

I thought we were discussing GMT, not Zarta?

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I figure "this dude did a terrible thing" is going to be more believable when the person in question is known to be an untrustworthy backstabber, not less believable.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I figure "this dude did a terrible thing" is going to be more believable when the person in question is known to be an untrustworthy backstabber, not less believable.

The stupid thing he did is a little less believable when he's supposed to be reasonably good at his job..

Grand Lodge 4/5

I'm not speaking about specifics. Just disputing kinevon's claim that an untrustworthy character is harder to frame.

1/5

He could be pulling a Severus Snape. Maybe the guy is amazingly committed, and is now deep undercover.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I'm not speaking about specifics. Just disputing kinevon's claim that an untrustworthy character is harder to frame.

Sorry, misunderstanding there. Must have had communication issues, that day.

What I meant was, it is hard to frame someone for something that they actually did.

IOW: GMT wasn't framed, he was just exposed.

Grand Lodge 4/5

OH, yeah that makes more sense.

Scarab Sages 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Of course he was "exposed"... He's always in a BATH!

;)

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Katisha wrote:

Of course he was "exposed"... He's always in a BATH!

;)

Cleaning up the society starts with you.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Katisha wrote:

Of course he was "exposed"... He's always in a BATH!

;)

Hmmm. Not quite always.

I seem to remember him being dressed during a couple of encounters.

Of course, those are encounters that tend to leave him either dead, or exposed as a projected image when he would have been dead, otherwise.

Scarab Sages 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Katisha wrote:

Of course he was "exposed"... He's always in a BATH!

;)

Cleaning up the society starts with you.

Oh! Think he needs help?! (Usually that costs extra, but I'm sure we can work this out...)

Lol!

Sovereign Court 5/5

Whatever the case, he has enough blackmail over the 10 that they cant have him killed off. I have a feeling he has a grand scheme in the making to get back at the 10.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Who Framed Grandmaster Torch

5/5 5/55/55/5

Post and beam

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

What if, much like The Prisoner, there is no one single Grandmaster Torch? The burns and omnipresent bathtub are his main visual characteristics, and both of them would be easy to emulate using a disguise kit, hat of disguise or even arcane mark. Instead, a shadowy organization sends out Torches wherever they're needed, which explains the benevolent Torch (Gods' Market Gamble, Silent Tide), the underhanded Torch (The Many Fortunes of Grandmaster Torch, Rivalry's End) and the incompetent Torch (Delirium's Tangle, The Mantis' Prey).

4/5 **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Torch died on that mission for the Decemvirate all those years ago, replaced by Nyarlathotep, here to sow seeds of chaos through the material plane. Due to the large number of Pathfinders who will do anything for another wand of clw, a Society faction head is the perfect vehicle to disrupt government and trade across Golarion.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

You know, I've never seen it that way, but the PFS doing anything for their next hit makes a lot of sense.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Andrew Shumate wrote:
What if, much like The Prisoner, there is no one single Grandmaster Torch? The burns and omnipresent bathtub are his main visual characteristics, and both of them would be easy to emulate using a disguise kit, hat of disguise or even arcane mark. Instead, a shadowy organization sends out Torches wherever they're needed, which explains the benevolent Torch (Gods' Market Gamble, Silent Tide), the underhanded Torch (The Many Fortunes of Grandmaster Torch, Rivalry's End) and the incompetent Torch (Delirium's Tangle, The Mantis' Prey).

This is my new headcanon. It explains so much.

Sovereign Court

I doubt he was a Pathfinder, his monicer seems more like a hireling that escaped certain death when his pc team went boom. The scars are simply based on his ineptitude with flammable objects. (Ie dammit torch light the torch in your hand not yourself, can't we take you anywhere!!)

As for his framer, it was the butler who candlesticked Aroden in the green room. Having become bored with immortality (stolen from Aroden) he set up GMT into a position of power then revoked it using simple illusory magics. Now the poor hireling is all alone in the world again, while the grand butler did it again! (Without getting caught)

Where will the immortal butler strike next, and will he use the adamantine unholy candlestick (that bypasses all DR)!

Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Grandmaster Torch was framed....explain how. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Pathfinder Society