Enforcer:
Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize your target as a free action. If you are successful, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt. If your attack was a critical hit, your target is frightened for 1 round with a successful Intimidate check, as well as being shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.
Skill unlock: Intimidate:
5 Ranks: If you exceed the DC to demoralize a target by at least 10, it is frightened for 1 round and shaken thereafter. A Will save (DC = 10 + your number of ranks in Intimidate) negates the frightened condition, but the target is still shaken, even if it has the stalwart ability.
My question is, do these work together? In other words, if I hit somebody for nonlethal, take my Enforcer free action, and beat the DC to demoralize by at least 10, what happens?
I see two possibilities:
- Target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.
- Target is frightened for 1 round and then shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt minus one (target is not frightened if it makes its will save).
Any ideas which will be the consistent ruling? The distinction turns intimidate from a very appealing skill unlock to a very meh one, so I'd like to know.
I think it is the first case. The text of Enforcer spells out the results of a successful Intimidate check made through this feat, so I think you are stuck with them.
I think it is the first case. The text of Enforcer spells out the results of a successful Intimidate check made through this feat, so I think you are stuck with them.
So can an Enforcer demoralize stack from shaken into frightened?
It seems to me that Enforcer demoralization is either a sub-category of the usual combat demoralize or it's not. If it's the first, then there's no fear stacking but the skill unlock should convert the first round of shaken-ness into fear (on a >10 success). If it's the second then the skill unlock wouldn't apply but also you should be able to stack shaken into frightened into panicked into cowering.
If it was just "make an intimidate check" I could see it going either way, but enforcer specifically says make "an intimidate check to demoralize," and skill unlock works off the action of demoralizing so it seems pretty open shut: Frighten for 1 round (assuming failed save) and shaken for the rest (total rounds equal to damage). Finally all rogues can be thug rogues.
They seem combineable to me. You use the Enforcer Intimidate (Frightened on a crit), AND the skill unlock (save vs. Frightened on success by 10 or more).
And in no case do they stack into Frightened, because you're still using Demoralize, which has rules against that, and it's the "same" shaken condition you're applying, they're not being shaken by Enforcer ANDShaken by the unlock ability.
The Skill Unlock works on Intimidate checks to demoralize, which is what Enforcer allows you to make. The unlock says enemies who fail the save become frightened for 1 round and "shaken thereafter". Enforcer just gives you a different way to determine the duration of "thereafter"
I guess the weird corner case here would be if you used Enforcer and only inflicted 1 damage but beat the DC of the Intimidate check by 10. I guess then the enemy would just be frightened for 1 round. Usually beating the DC by 10 would make the enemy demoralized for 3 rounds, but Enforcer calculates the duration differently.
Another oddball situation might be when you crit with Enforcer and make the target frightened for 1 round. I'm not sure if that could stack with the Skill Unlock to make the enemy frightened for 2 rounds. I'd tend to think not.
I see what you are all saying. I was thinking of Skill Unlock a little differently, but I find your arguments convincing. So I'm now on the "they will work together" side.
Another oddball situation might be when you crit with Enforcer and make the target frightened for 1 round. I'm not sure if that could stack with the Skill Unlock to make the enemy frightened for 2 rounds. I'd tend to think not.
I think not, too. To my knowledge, crits only multiply hp damage - not other parameters like duration.
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The rounds of frightened wouldn't stack, but the two effects would combine, I think.
Ok, so it sounds like you guys are on the "replace the first round of shaken with frightened" train, which is where I wanted to be.
Hey, a useful skill unlock. Who says rogues can't have nice things?