| Brian Burch |
Barbarian 9
Touch AC 16 (3 dex, 2 luck [jingasa and fate's favored], 1 deflection)
Normal AC 22 (above plus breastplate)
Ghost Rager: While raging, the barbarian deals normal damage to incorporeal creatures even when using nonmagical weapons. She also gains a morale bonus to touch AC equal to her saving throw bonus from her superstition rage power.
Superstition bonus +8 (4 for level 9, 3 from human fav class, 1 from headband of havoc)
When raging my touch AC is 22 (16+8-2[for rage]). What is my normal AC when raging?
I say it is 28 because anything that would increase touch should automatically increase your normal AC. Harder to make contact with, followed by applying armor, nat armor, shields etc.
A few GMs I've asked about this are saying that my touch AC has no effect on normal AC, so while my touch is 22, my normal is 20 (22-2[for rage]).
No one can seem to give a good explanation for why this would make sense in the game. A monk's fist does damage even if it can't touch me?
Some are saying that it doesn't require an explanation because it's RAW so it's just mechanics. That feels like a cop out answer. If everything were 100% RAW then we would sit here accepting typos as solid rules (look at Potion Glutton). Everything is open to at least a tiny bit of interpretation.
What do you all think? Can I get an errata or some kind of clarification?
| Lost In Limbo |
Ghost Rager: While raging, the barbarian deals normal damage to incorporeal creatures even when using nonmagical weapons. She also gains a morale bonus to touch AC equal to her saving throw bonus from her superstition rage power.
From reading this ability, I understand it to mean that the barbarian is gaining a morale bonus to AC that only functions for the purposes of her touch AC.
As for an explanation, this is part of an ability that helps you fight ghosts. Ghosts and ghost-like creatures tend to be incorporeal and incorporeal creatures almost universally target touch AC with their melee attacks. So the first half of the ability lets you hit them and the second half of the ability stops them from hitting you.
Edit: If anything, I think this ability would have made more sense if it was restricted even more, so that it only protected against touch attacks from incorporeal creatures.
| Felyndiira |
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There's a very good reason that the ability is named "Ghost Rager" and specifically calls out "Touch AC" rather than, say, deflection (which would apply to both touch and regular).
Reddit's answer to this question was correct when you asked over there.
And as Lost in Limbo is saying, the logical way to "errata" this ability, if you think that it's printed in error, would be a nerf (to let it only apply to incorporeal touch attacks). I'm not sure if that would be the best option for you, though.
| DM Sothal |
A few GMs I've asked about this are saying that my touch AC has no effect on normal AC, so while my touch is 22, my normal is 20 (22-2[for rage]).
No one can seem to give a good explanation for why this would make sense in the game.
A possible in-game explanation for ghosts not being able to touch you, even though your normal AC is lower: You have some room inside your armor, letting you twist away from the incorporeal touch of ghosts.
It would have hit your armor, but not the body inside it.That could be adapted to the monk example: the monk hit your armor, but not the body inside the armor.
In the end it's a metagaming explanation of the rule-system.
If it works for you, good. If it doesn't, it doesn't matter, them's the rules.
| Forseti |
Ghost Rager: While raging, the barbarian deals normal damage to incorporeal creatures even when using nonmagical weapons. She also gains a morale bonus to touch AC equal to her saving throw bonus from her superstition rage power.
You've quoted that wrong.
It's "Ghost Rager (Su): While raging, the barbarian etc. etc."
"Su", short for Supernatural Ability. As such, free from the restraints of what makes sense from an exclusively physical point of view.
Think of it as your anger manifesting as a force able to stop incorporeal creatures (and interfering with ranged touch spells).
LazarX
|
Touch AC isn't a bonus type, it's an Armor type...
so unlike dodge or deflection, it isn't something that is added to your normal armor class.
The ability, as written, is correct. It ONLY adds to your touch AC.
It's not the only place it happens. Several items in the Technology Guide add ONLY to Touch AC, and only against specific attacks. This addition does not affect standard AC in any way.
| alexd1976 |
alexd1976 wrote:It's not the only place it happens. Several items in the Technology Guide add ONLY to Touch AC, and only against specific attacks. This addition does not affect standard AC in any way.Touch AC isn't a bonus type, it's an Armor type...
so unlike dodge or deflection, it isn't something that is added to your normal armor class.
The ability, as written, is correct. It ONLY adds to your touch AC.
I haven't bothered reading the technology guide, my current GM doesn't allow it.
Sounds pretty darn cool though.
| Felyndiira |
While I agree with the conclusions, it sounds like it's written incorrectly.
As some have pointed out, "+x morale bonus against touch attacks" would be more consistent with conventional wording.
It works well if you read it as "+x untyped bonus against touch attacks" :), so that it stacks with everything else except itself.
Many untyped bonuses don't explicitly list themselves as "untyped" and just say something like +X bonus to Y.