RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Sadly, that FAQ was removed from the context of the thread that spawned it. It was in fact intended to exclude small aasimars and the like.
EDIT: Here's the best reference I could find on short notice.
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#1 is Correct
#2 is Sort of Correct
Aasimars have an alternate Racial Trait called Scion of Humanity that makes THEM subject to the spells listed above (it specifically makes them count as humanoid)
Scion of Humanity Some aasimars' heavenly ancestry is extremely distant. An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids. She can pass for human without using the Disguise skill. This racial trait replaces the Celestial language and alters the native subtype.
however they are the only ones with that option
so as Scion of humanity says Humanoid(Human) - YES .. Bane / favored enemy Human does work on them - but ONLY them (not Tiefling or the elemental races) and ONLY if they have that Trait
Furthermore - only Aasimars with that trait may take Human Favored class bonuses as well
Native Outsiders have the quality:
Outsider (Native), meaning their Type is Outsider, and their Subtype is Native.
Scion of Humanity Aasimars are the ONLY thing so-far that changes this. SOHAs have Outsider (Native) / Humanoid (Human).
SOHAs are both Native Outsiders AND Humans.
HOWEVER, Fetchlings, Tieflings, Suli, Sylphs, Oreads, Ifrits, and Undines ALL have human ancestors - only the Human aspect of their nature isn't strong enough to get through, like how Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are first generation.
SOHAs specifically say that they are far-enough removed from their Celestial ancestry that their Human aspects show through (so maybe 3rd or 4th generation). They're still Aasimars, but their blood isn't SO overrun with Celestial makeup that they can, in fact, pass for pure humans.
Unlike Half-Elves and Half-Orcs, it seems that only marrying an Outsider with a Human can produce a Native Outsider offspring (mixing with other races produces a member of the non-outsider race, albeit with muted outsider blood), so every single example of Native Outsiders are invariably part-Human - their Outsider blood just so completely overwhelms their Human blood that they don't actually COUNT as a Human, though.
As an aside, Gillmen are basically considered the same - they're so adapted to their environment (underwater), that a retrograde mutation has to occur to make them MORE Human (thus the Throwback Gillman alternate racial feature).
There isn't any word yet if the other Native Outsiders will ever get the Scion of Humanity treatment, but if you're playing in a home-game, your DM can easily slap a Scion-of-Humanity-like alternate racial feature onto any Native Outsider; just trade out the Outsider automatic languages (Terran for Oread, etc.), and add Humanoid (Human) to their Creature Types.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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As further evidence, see the Ifrit alternate racial trait:
Source Advanced Race Guide
Some ifrits inherit an efreeti ancestor’s ability to magically change a creature’s size. They can cast either enlarge person or reduce person (the ifrit chooses when using this ability) once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equals the ifrit’s level). The ifrit can use this ability to affect other ifrits as though they were humanoid creatures. This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.
The line I bolded would not be needed if Ifrits (native outsiders) were considered humanoids.
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are you the GM or player
if your the GM then the burden of Proof is on them
if your the player then you get to Just Roll with a broken rule set or quit playing with that group
is this Rule actually affecting you as a character in a negative way ? if so then I would say leave or contact a VO in your area .. not much they can do about it other than say "Hey- do your research"
if not - meh let it slide ... or better yet point them to this thread .. IIRC the ONLY thing Mike brock commented on was FCB Stuff but its been over a year
but the "Scion of Humanity is useless and does nothing" that just shows a lack if intelligence IMHO
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As a side note, I'm quite sad that this FAQ forces my oread, who has the Dwarf-Blooded feat, took a rank in Linguistics to speak Dwarven, worships the dwarven pantheon, has a religion trait for said pantheon, has dwarven weapon familiarity from a boon, is from the Five Kings Mountains, and was raised by dwarves, to be the offspring of two humans. I usually introduce him with the "walks like a duck" spiel.
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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Hopefully this will settle things on this topic.
The Pathfinder Society FAQ does state that Aasimars and Tieflings are considered to be half-human. (This FAQ should be updated to add the Geniekin).
Scion of Humanity does add the Humanoid (Human) type to Aasimars only and makes them subject to those items affecting Outsiders (Native) as well as Humanoid (Human). So an Aasimar having this trait could be affected by Enlarge Person, Hold Person, etc. This is per the Aasimar information in the Advanced Race Guide. Tieflings and Geniekin do not have that option and therefore cannot be affected by spells that do not work on outsiders.
Keep in mind the FAQ does not state that Aasimars (without Scion of Humanity) and Tieflings gain the Humanoid (Human) subtype. Scion of Humanity is still a viable trait for Aasimars.
Aasimars and Teiflings are half-human in PFS: Yes (PFS FAQ)
Do they gain the Humanoid (Human) type?: No with the exception of an Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity trait. (PFS FAQ)
Is Scion of Humanity viable in PFS?: Yes
Does the Aasimar and Tieflings FAQ apply to Geniekin?: Currently No but there should be an update made to that FAQ.
If anything has been noted to the contrary, please provide any links to the applicable information. Hope this helps.
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As a side note, I'm quite sad that this FAQ forces my oread, who has the Dwarf-Blooded feat, took a rank in Linguistics to speak Dwarven, worships the dwarven pantheon, has a religion trait for said pantheon, has dwarven weapon familiarity from a boon, is from the Five Kings Mountains, and was raised by dwarves, to be the offspring of two humans. I usually introduce him with the "walks like a duck" spiel.
You and I need to play together sometime.
FWIW, the Dwarf-Blooded feat states your ancestry is Dwarven rather than Human, so at least *that* should be fine.
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And when you explain the context of that FAQ, and why it was created, what do they say?
For reference, HERE is the thread (one of many at the time) that spawned the FAQ.
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As a side note, I'm quite sad that this FAQ forces my oread, who has the Dwarf-Blooded feat, took a rank in Linguistics to speak Dwarven, worships the dwarven pantheon, has a religion trait for said pantheon, has dwarven weapon familiarity from a boon, is from the Five Kings Mountains, and was raised by dwarves, to be the offspring of two humans. I usually introduce him with the "walks like a duck" spiel.You and I need to play together sometime.
FWIW, the Dwarf-Blooded feat states your ancestry is Dwarven rather than Human, so at least *that* should be fine.
I'd love to, but I'm dirt poor and probably can't afford to visit your continent again for a few years. Perhaps some GenCon, when our characters are long gone to where Seekers go.
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I was kind of hoping there might already be something that distinguishes between "is half-human" and "has the humanoid type" that my own searches failed to turn up. I was especially hoping there would be something said by campaign leadership, since the agreed upon stance in this disagreement has been, "argument from authority is the best argument."
are you the GM or player
if your the GM then the burden of Proof is on them
if your the player then you get to Just Roll with a broken rule set or quit playing with that groupis this Rule actually affecting you as a character in a negative way ?
This has only come up when I am the player. No one in my area is trying to enlarge their melee Outsider.
It mostly only comes up in regards to Hold Person. I almost never see an enemy caster with Hold Person, but every time I do, it just happens to be when someone from the pro-#2 camp is GMing and there are people playing Outsiders (and the Outsiders end up getting targeted with it every single time). This is such a corner case, but the frequency of it is getting frustrating. It's seriously happened the last three or four times this one GM in particular has run over me.
Whenever it comes up, I and the other players that agree with everyone in this thread just let it go. It hasn't caused anything catastrophic.I would say leaveThat is way too far for the given situation. The GMs in question are overall good GMs, they just have a few rules blind spots.
They don't GM all that often anyways.or contact a VO in your areaYeeeeeeeeeeah, about that...
Bottom Line - unless they are an aasimar with Scion of humanity ... they are outsiders(Native) and target humanoid doesnt work on them
and no Faq is required for that ... just look at the entry in the beastiary|
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Hmm, interesting.
They are still outsiders though, not humanoids, and thus the hold person/charm person/enlarge person and other spells that target humanoids won't function.
However, I do think this means that they can take the human favored class bonus, just like half elves can choose between half-elf, elf or human favored class bonus.
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However, I do think this means that they can take the human favored class bonus, just like half elves can choose between half-elf, elf or human favored class bonus.
That is also untrue. FAQs mean exactly what they say. Nothing more, nothing less.
Rangers with favored enemy (human) get no bonus against plane-touched.
Human bane weapons provide no bonus against plane-touched.
Etc.
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People are reading way to much into it. Aasimars / tieflings are all considered to be half-human because Mike Brock did not want small half-halfling aasimars running around. You get no additional benefits besides having to be medium size from the FAQ ruling. You play an aasimar or tiefling or other outsider exactly as the stat block says.
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[Caution, fluff derail ahead]
By the way, it is worth waying that members of the plane-touched races are not "half-human". The humanoid portion of their ancestry is human, yes, but that humanoid portion is probably not half.
Most undine, for instance, are born to two undine parents. (This is also true of fetchlings, who are a very different plane-touched race than any of the others.) The implication with the other plane-touched races is that they are recessives that crop up a few generations removed.
To put it another way: the offspring of a human and an angel is a half-celestial (rather than an aasimar). A standard aasimar is what you get a few generations removed, a scion of humanity aasimar is a few generations further removed, and anything less that that is among the realm of Celestial-bloodline Sorcerers.
It's also true that the planar influence doesn't have to enter the bloodling through breeding -- it can be from planar exposure (though presumably significantly more exposure than would produce a Sorcerer of that Bloodline). In Blood of Angels they also specifically call out aasimar are sometimes born as spontaneous pregnancies, often to virtuous same-sex couples. Presumably that would also be possible for some of the other planars...though in very different circumstances.
Not trying to invalidate anyone's backstory -- just trying to stress that there's a lot more nuance (and options) then are being talked about.
[/fluff derail]
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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[fluff derail]
It's also true that the planar influence doesn't have to enter the bloodling through breeding -- it can be from planar exposure (though presumably significantly more exposure than would produce a Sorcerer of that Bloodline). In Blood of Angels they also specifically call out aasimar are sometimes born as spontaneous pregnancies, often to virtuous same-sex couples. Presumably that would also be possible for some of the other planars...though in very different circumstances.
[/fluff derail]
Though hopefully not to Male-Male same sex couples. Because ouch. :)
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Though hopefully not to Male-Male same sex couples. Because ouch. :)[fluff derail]
It's also true that the planar influence doesn't have to enter the bloodling through breeding -- it can be from planar exposure (though presumably significantly more exposure than would produce a Sorcerer of that Bloodline). In Blood of Angels they also specifically call out aasimar are sometimes born as spontaneous pregnancies, often to virtuous same-sex couples. Presumably that would also be possible for some of the other planars...though in very different circumstances.
[/fluff derail]
If Lamashtu can do it, so can the gods!
There'd probably be a choice there, somewhere.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Though hopefully not to Male-Male same sex couples. Because ouch. :)[fluff derail]
It's also true that the planar influence doesn't have to enter the bloodling through breeding -- it can be from planar exposure (though presumably significantly more exposure than would produce a Sorcerer of that Bloodline). In Blood of Angels they also specifically call out aasimar are sometimes born as spontaneous pregnancies, often to virtuous same-sex couples. Presumably that would also be possible for some of the other planars...though in very different circumstances.
[/fluff derail]If Lamashtu can do it, so can the gods!
There'd probably be a choice there, somewhere.
The difference is Lamashtu is a jerk. :) She also doesn't care about ouch, she thinks it is funny. Also, she is a jerk.
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If it helps. This is the thread that spawned the FAQ post.
It's the one I linked earlier, the one that has "Answered in the FAQ" at the top.