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Does a 5 foot step count as movement for a stealth check?
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
Yes: Movements movement and its not an action.
No: the game means movement like a move action. Sniping would be kind of pointless if you could just 5 foot step stealth.
Usually this comes up for roguey types with hide in plain sight or hellcat stealth who want to sneak attack step and sneak attack again.
Not sure there has ever been an official answer, but I personally find the idea of being able to use a 5ft step to do it unbalancing.
Imagine an archer ranger with Hide in Plain Sight and Camouflage being able to full attack and then disappear after each full attack by taking a 5ft step.
Although, I should mention that it's not as big a problem with Hide In Plain Sight since most version of it don't allow you to negate the need for cover, only the need to be unobserved (which would otherwise normally require a bluff check to distract the enemy once engaged in combat).
Although, I should mention that it's not as big a problem with Hide In Plain Sight since most version of it don't allow you to negate the need for cover, only the need to be unobserved (which would otherwise normally require a bluff check to distract the enemy once engaged in combat).
Come on... I thought the board had finished with this.... Hide in plainsight removes the need to be unobserved, which is the only reason why you need cover in the first place. Getting cover is listed as the general method of making the character unobserved.
Although, I should mention that it's not as big a problem with Hide In Plain Sight since most version of it don't allow you to negate the need for cover, only the need to be unobserved (which would otherwise normally require a bluff check to distract the enemy once engaged in combat).Come on... I thought the board had finished with this.... Hide in plainsight removes the need to be unobserved, which is the only reason why you need cover in the first place. Getting cover is listed as the general method of making the character unobserved.
Not that I saw. Was there an official statement on it?
However, as an advanced statement let's please not argue about it here and distract from the topic of this thread. If there is not an official statement then let us just say that you can expect table variance on the functionality of HiPS.
I left the thread about it because it started to get particularly nasty and long-winded.
Although, I should mention that it's not as big a problem with Hide In Plain Sight since most version of it don't allow you to negate the need for cover, only the need to be unobserved (which would otherwise normally require a bluff check to distract the enemy once engaged in combat).Come on... I thought the board had finished with this.... Hide in plainsight removes the need to be unobserved, which is the only reason why you need cover in the first place. Getting cover is listed as the general method of making the character unobserved.
I remember that being RAI that never made it to raw for a lot of the various HIPS abilities but I can't find the citation i was looking for.
Not that I saw. Was there an official statement on it?
There doesn't need to be an offical statement on it:
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
The first sentence states that you cannot use stealth while observed. The rest of the paragraph describes methods on how you can make yourself count as unobserved.
But either way, I personally would rule that 5 ft. is a form of movement, thus it is movement. Still, wouldn't be surprised if it was FAQ'd otherwise to stop the issue Claxon mentioned previously.
Not that I saw. Was there an official statement on it?There doesn't need to be an offical statement on it:
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.The first sentence states that you cannot use stealth while observed. The rest of the paragraph describes methods on how you can make yourself count as unobserved.
But either way, I personally would rule that 5 ft. is a form of movement, thus it is movement. Still, wouldn't be surprised if it was FAQ'd otherwise to stop the issue Claxon mentioned previously.
As I said, lets not distract from the purpose of this thread by arguing about this topic.
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Not that I saw. Was there an official statement on it?There doesn't need to be an offical statement on it:
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.The first sentence states that you cannot use stealth while observed. The rest of the paragraph describes methods on how you can make yourself count as unobserved.
But either way, I personally would rule that 5 ft. is a form of movement, thus it is movement. Still, wouldn't be surprised if it was FAQ'd otherwise to stop the issue Claxon mentioned previously.
That says the exact opposite. It very clearly says that both cover or concealment and non observed status are required. You could try to read one sentence without the others in the paragraph, but that interpretation would bring up the question of why anyone would ever try to make the bluff check to hide, get to cover, AND take a -10 on their stealth check if all one had to do was get to cover. It also makes a direct contradiction with the first sentence, which would be meaningless.
Shadow dancer HIPS gives you cover and unobserved. Ranger HIPS gives you concealment but not unobserved: but the lower level ability camoflauge has observation covered. Rogue HIPS was supposed to give you both, but because it copied the ranger HIPS it technically does not (trying to find SKR's statement that it was supposed to)