Markuus Brightsteel
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OK, as someone who only plays PFS games once a year, for four days a year, at Gen Con:
Am I reading this correctly that even though I've never referenced a single non-core item/trait/feat/etc. on the single character that I've been slowly progressing over the last several years, that if I want to finally be able to play that character with "like minded folks" in a core-only session, that I can't? I need to start all over?
I know that I don't play nearly as often as some of you and maybe for most folks "just rolling up and starting over" is easy. But it's taken me four years to make it to a measly level 4, and I'm not about to start over.
"Core Mode" fixed the one thing that I absolutely hated about playing in PFS games (the constant one-upsmanship on what folks were bringing to the table). But I'm not about to start over and throw away four years of grinding him up, three or four sessions per summer.
Being told (effectively) "keep putting up with the ultimate min-max'ing of folks who buy $1000 worth of books, or start over" would be enough to say "Nope, there's a third option, walking away from PFS."
There *has* to be some sort of allowance for this sort of thing. It's absurd that there isn't. Somebody please tell me that I'm insane.
Markuus Brightsteel
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Talk to your venture officers. They might be able to work something out for you. Core mode was, after all, created in part for players exactly like you.
Who/what are these "venture officers" of whom you speak?
I say that not to be glib, but that my sole interaction with PFS is "playing in those games once a year at Gen Con"... there is no local PFS presence anywhere close to me, so I don't have "my venture officers" as it were.
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Markuus:
I don't know if you will still be reading this but allow me to offer you two pieces of advice and ask one question.
A1) Consider playing Core games either locally or online during the next year. You can either have a new concept or a nearly identical character of equal level for next year's GenCon. You could play new scenarios with the same build as "the previously unknown adventures of Markuus Brightsteel Sr." Then sign up for Core at next year's GenCon
A2) If you're dead set against this (either because of concept or that you simply don't have time) think about advertising on the Paizo boards before next year's GenCon. "Hey all! I'm playing 8-02 on Friday afternoon and would like to preform a group. I want to be with people who aren't powergamers. My character is built using only the Core rulebook but this would not be a Core table."
Q) What would you have done if the Core option did not exist (as it did not until early this year)? Would you have decided to quit PFS anyway?
Markuus Brightsteel
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Kevin:
A1) There are no PFS games that I know of anywhere even remotely close to me (well, unless you consider an hour-plus drive each way to be "close" for gaming purposes). It's just not terribly viable.
As for online.... hmm, maybe, not sure. I'd have to look into how that works in terms of scheduling, time requirements, technology issues, etc.
A2) Hm, maybe. I'd be curious to see how that might work, and I'll certainly give it a shot.
A3) Amusingly, I probably would've kept playing and just silently stewed at all the "rules-legitimate" characters I was playing with.
But as I explained it to Bob IForgetHisLastName (who, I should be clear, was as respectful as could possibly be, I have no complaints with how he handled my concerns) at the PF HQ this year, the current two options are:
- Keep silently stewing over my table-mates' characters I hate, while watching folks at neighboring tables playing the 'game' I want to play
- Throw away four years of work to go sit at those neighboring tables
That sort of becomes a "bridge too far". It's one thing to be forced by a lack of options to play with a bunch of min-max'ed power-gamers, it's quite another for there to be "other options" available that nothing but bureaucracy prevents you from enjoying.
EDIT: I'll almost certainly keep visiting this thread in the upcoming days, if for no other reason than to see if the concerns I raise cause any sort of hint at changes to the rules. My conversation with Bob didn't lead me to be all that hopeful about that though.
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If you have a decent internet connection, or can hang out in a starbucks for an evening, own a laptop or desktop computer you can play in online games. You don't even need that much for PbP games (although doing lots of forum posts on a phone isn't my idea of fun).
Even one game a month over the course of a year would get you a character at 4th level.
As to in person games, if you would tell us where you are, you might be surprised that there are closer options. A lot of people play PFS. Your local VC, and there is definitely a VC local to you, might be able to hook you up as well.
Markuus Brightsteel
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As to in person games, if you would tell us where you are, you might be surprised that there are closer options. A lot of people play PFS. Your local VC, and there is definitely a VC local to you, might be able to hook you up as well.
Hurley NY USA (12443).
The closest place I would expect to find games (with any regularity) are Poughkeepsie (~45 min drive) or Albany (~1 hour drive).
Although I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised. :-)
If you have a decent internet connection, or can hang out in a starbucks for an evening, own a laptop or desktop computer you can play in online games. You don't even need that much for PbP games (although doing lots of forum posts on a phone isn't my idea of fun).
Although I am a bit curious to hear more about this option. I agree that forum posting isn't necessarily "how I'd prefer to game" it might be a decent option for getting "caught back up".
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Hey Maarkus!
Sorry to hear about your situation. I was actually present when spoke with Bob, the HQ staffer that was leading HQ that day. I believe his response was that while there is no way to change the rules regarding core play now, the future of the program was uncertain. He also mentioned these forums as a place to discuss your situation so that the campaign powers that be could made aware of your feedback.
I'd also like to mention that core play is in its infancy and as one of the supporters of core play your feedback is critical for how we move forward. Thank you.
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PFS Online:
There are several options available in this general ballpark
1) Play by Post (PbP): This is a fairly slow but intense option, as you are basically using a dedicated forum thread to run/play your game. These usually take days or weeks to play out, and tend toward more RP than "live" games, as the time limits are vastly different.
2) Virtual Table Top (VTT): Due to improvements in computers and Internet service, these games usually use a set of programs to simulate the tabletop with maps on it, dice rolls, and a voice chat/conference call to allow regular discussion.
These typically run in about the same time frame as a face-to-face game these days, due to a mix f improved technologies, and the ability to prebuild commonly used dice rolls using macros. James Wygle, one of the VOs who has started playing online more often, has a short overview of some of the things that Roll20, one of the commonly used VTTs, can help to automate play.
For online play like this, it is recommended that you have a headset/microphone, especially in a public location, but as long as you can mute your input, you can get by without.
One advantage, in my opinion, of any of the online play options is that you get to play with people allover the world. I am running the Rise of the Runelords AP online, and my players include a young lady from Singapore, while I live in Las Vegas, Nevada.
I have also played or run games with people from almost all other parts of the world. That has also included playing and GMing several of the multi-table specials online.
For one of the more active groups for online PFS games: Pathfinder Society Online Collective.
Markuus Brightsteel
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Hey Maarkus!
Sorry to hear about your situation. I was actually present when spoke with Bob, the HQ staffer that was leading HQ that day. I believe his response was that while there is no way to change the rules regarding core play now, the future of the program was uncertain. He also mentioned these forums as a place to discuss your situation so that the campaign powers that be could made aware of your feedback.
I'd also like to mention that core play is in its infancy and as one of the supporters of core play your feedback is critical for how we move forward. Thank you.
Walter -
Agreed. I think you captured his response in greater detail, but I think the *gist* of not holding one's breath was probably still valid. :-)
And to your last point, that's why I'm still participating in this thread as opposed to just stalking off pissed. As someone else pointed out in the thread, "this program was designed exactly for people like me"... so I want it to succeed, and I want to participate in it... it's just that right now, there's some pain-points to doing so. :-/
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Markuus,
Are there 3 to 6 people in your area that would like to play PFS? You can run scenarios for them (the ones you've already played?) and use the GM credit to make the character you want up to the level you want. Even at 1 game a month, you'll be back at a 4th level character in time for next year's GenCon. ;)
Heck, next year when you throw up a post, you'll have a shiny little star by your name.
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There's a Play-by-post 'Gameday' coming up, in which GMs will be posting lots of games openly on the paizo forums (possibly other locations as well), starting in september. See here and here.
In addition, if you play APs or the new, 64-page modules with local friends, the sanctioned portions of those can be applied in 'campaign mode' to PFS characters. This lets you play normally without PFS rules.
You can also play PFS scenarios yourself, as your private games, if you are willing to use PFS rules for those scenarios. I don't know if you ever get to game away from conventions, but it is an option.
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Markuus, another piece of advice.
You have currently have three options:
- (A) Keep playing your current character in non-core games;
(B) Start a new character to play in Core games;
(C) Walk away.
Option (A) seems like a poor choice for you, so let's throw that one out.
You have stated that choosing option (B) would be throwing away years of work toward your character. But, I think that you might try to adjust your perspective a little.
If you go with option (C) and walk away, you still aren't getting anything for all of your years of working on your current character; in fact, you aren't gaining anything at all.
If you go with option (B), on the other hand, you still get to play PFS—which, presumably, you enjoy—and you get to do so with players who are like-minded about the size and scope of the ruleset! :)
Even if PFS leadership changed their mind and allowed you to port your character over to the Core campaign, you will need to retire said character at some point. Either he will level-out of the campaign, or he might even die an inglorious death. At that point, you would need to create a new character anyway.
Just think of this problem instead as an opportunity to start a new character in the Core campaign.
Just some thoughts. Take it with a grain of salt. :)
Markuus Brightsteel
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Even if PFS leadership changed their mind and allowed you to port your character over to the Core campaign, you will need to retire said character at some point. Either he will level-out of the campaign, or he might even die an inglorious death. At that point, you would need to create a new character anyway.
True, but at the rate I level him up, that'll be around 2025, so I suspect there'll be a different major-rev of Pathfinder in that timeframe. :-)
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Markuus,
I completely sympathise with your concern. When Core was announced we had just started a PFS game with a friend of mine who only owns the core book. It felt really weird to say that although your character has no other option, for you to join in our core game you have to scrap that character and start again.
However, the Fox has some really good points, as do others in this thread.
Markuus Brightsteel
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Here. They schedule games throughout the upstate area. There is a game in New Palz, 20 minutes from Hurley.
And for what it's worth, you are very fortunate to think of a 45-minute drive as unnecessarily long. :)
Hey, where are you seeing that New Paltz game, I can't find it...
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The Fox wrote:Hey, where are you seeing that New Paltz game, I can't find it...Here. They schedule games throughout the upstate area. There is a game in New Palz, 20 minutes from Hurley.
And for what it's worth, you are very fortunate to think of a 45-minute drive as unnecessarily long. :)
I don't remember. I did an internet search and found it at some shop called October Country.
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Markuus Brightsteel wrote:I don't remember. I did an internet search and found it at some shop called October Country.The Fox wrote:Hey, where are you seeing that New Paltz game, I can't find it...Here. They schedule games throughout the upstate area. There is a game in New Palz, 20 minutes from Hurley.
And for what it's worth, you are very fortunate to think of a 45-minute drive as unnecessarily long. :)
TetsujinOni
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Next October Country game is this Friday night.
Talking with the usual event organizer (well, cat-herder) (paging BNW), let's see what we can get you hooked up with, Markuus.
Markuus Brightsteel
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Hey all.
At the risk of bumping a very old thread, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for finding the October Country folks. They've gotten in touch with me via PM and I'm trying to see if I can make that work from a scheduling perspective.
Now I kinda feel bad for having "gone dark" while traveling, I didn't realize so many people were PM'ing me to try and get me a local group.
#feelthelove :-)