As suggested, re-posting the conversation in a separate thread.
How would Golarion and the specific races deal with the single-sex species/races acquiring trans members? Namely creatures like lamias, harpies and girtablili or hags. Seeing as a sex change is 'perfect' using alchemical and magical methods, as in, there are no physical discrepancies or difficulties, would a trans man hag be able to impregnate a woman with a changeling, or would something else prevent it? What would a 'roost' of harpies think about a member of theirs changing like that? Would the individuals motivation matter much for them? Say, if one of the harpies sees the very low 'pick' of humanoids in their lands, would other harpies consider it a boon or something abominable to destroy? They may even feel pride for being a group with a proper harpy man.
Or would the items that change the sex of a person simply fizzle when single-sex races try to use it?
Thanks for your thoughts, I do love to consider such things in world building.
EDIT: Apparently girtablilus might not be in the category. My bad, considered that that scorpion women might be as hermaphroditic as some species of insects are, leading to interesting conundrums if one was to desire to change the human half. Again, probably my misunderstanding of the race being all half scorpion half human woman.
would a trans man hag be able to impregnate a woman with a changeling, or would something else prevent it?
I think the spell/effect would simply fail for as far as we know there are no male hags and they require other species to complete their reproductive process.
As for the harpies and what not I'm pretty sure the magic would fizzle.
But, maybe, it's entirely possible that it's not that it doesn't work it simply hasn't been tried.
It would also be absolutely terrifying to have harpies that reproduce true without necessary predation.
would a trans man hag be able to impregnate a woman with a changeling, or would something else prevent it?I think the spell/effect would simply fail for as far as we know there are no male hags and they require other species to complete their reproductive process.
As for the harpies and what not I'm pretty sure the magic would fizzle.
But, maybe, it's entirely possible that it's not that it doesn't work it simply hasn't been tried.
It would also be absolutely terrifying to have harpies that reproduce true without necessary predation.
Terrifying? It might adjust their outlook and shift them from preying on humanoids to just doing their own thing minus the need to capture men. But there probably would be the initial boom of harpies terrorizing the countryside, good point.
And so there's an adventure hook based on one simple item creating hostilities.
Another thought to consider is whether or not even if you can get a male harpy whether or not they can breed to get more males. the fact that the children of harpies are always female harpies suggests something about their genetics and reproduction. Perhaps their uterus is simply lethal to any sperm carrying a Y chromosome?
Well damn, gotta say I'm disappointed my posts were deleted from the last thread since I'd certainly post them here.
Transsexual members of a single-sex race strike me as something that would happen during a time of plenty, much like homosexuality is often expressed in species when they aren't hard-pressed for resources or mates. They're producing resources for the community while drawing little out of it themselves, which as far as nature is concerned is a net positive and something worth keeping.
Your opening post does bring up the topic of magic, would a potion of sex change even work on a harpy? They're a mono-gendered race with no examples (as far as I'm aware) of men existing. Round hole, square peg, the magic just wouldn't work.
They might however be interested in magic that turns them into a binary race, however. A trans* harpy might not be able to become a man, but she could become a male strix.
I think the spell would frizzle...also I don't think you'll find transgendered among single sex species.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
With the Harpies, if you could change one to the male sex I think it would only sire female harpies. I idea being even if you change the physical sex its genetics are still female and that can only produce a female.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not to oversimplify, but I think it comes down to this:
What do you, the GM, think would be more interesting? If having male harpies is more interesting, then why not? Rule 1 is the only rule that matters here.
I think the spell would frizzle...also I don't think you'll find transgendered among single sex species.
I thought it would be an even rarer occurrence, maybe only something that might pop up after exposure to other races, where one could see a different lifestyle and physical make up and consider it. Naturally, it might simply result in an individual of a single-sex species changing their habits a little but still considering themselves fundamentally the same.
It also comes down to the matter of self presentation, as in, the same hypothetical harpy could do it because of a desire to appear a certain way while still thinking of one's self as just a harpy, as opposed to 'a man harpy'. Maybe she thought the men she was feasting on were so appealing she wanted to look like them while not thinking of herself any different. Naturally, this might be something more in the purview of Alter Self than any girdle or elixir.
Well damn, gotta say I'm disappointed my posts were deleted from the last thread since I'd certainly post them here.
Transsexual members of a single-sex race strike me as something that would happen during a time of plenty, much like homosexuality is often expressed in species when they aren't hard-pressed for resources or mates. They're producing resources for the community while drawing little out of it themselves, which as far as nature is concerned is a net positive and something worth keeping.
Your opening post does bring up the topic of magic, would a potion of sex change even work on a harpy? They're a mono-gendered race with no examples (as far as I'm aware) of men existing. Round hole, square peg, the magic just wouldn't work.
They might however be interested in magic that turns them into a binary race, however. A trans* harpy might not be able to become a man, but she could become a male strix.
Indeed, and I thought it was on topic of trans men, but that's moderators' business.
I considered the opposite, though not in all cases naturally. As I'd said if for reasons like war or disease the local region was rather cleansed of human/oids to prey on, would a harpy consider it, if she could? Even being a race of CE bastards, they might have some sense of tribalism or clan preservation and wish to preserve their group, or moving to better pastures might be a difficult undertaking. To be fair, I do consider it less likely than harpies trying to contact some fiends to 'help' with the matter, unless that failed or some harpy thought it would give her better standing or power.
Strix thing did remind me of my ulfen paladin trying to pass as a harpy for infiltration using Alter Self to look like a rather used and abused strix. The thing is, that changes the subtype. A harpy is a monstrous humanoid, while a strix is just your run of the mill humanoid. So spells like Alter Self doesn't allow for one to turn into a harpy. Presumably, it works fine in the scenario you suggested. Quirks of magic.
Magic would probably work. Now, the question of it affecting reproduction could be debate worthy, with a Captain Obvious or two mentioning "It's magic.
Edit: Before entering the thread, I thought it would be about things like Intersex, Hermaphodite, and the like, the title is a bit misleading imho.
I would say you can't have a trans-sex member of a single-sex species.
To be trans-sex is to change from one sex to another. This isn't possible if there is only one sex. Harpies, we'll use those since they are social, probably don't even have a concept of sexes in the way we think of them.
Now, What you might be able to do is create a new sex that mimics the role that other species play. In this case, I think it would be seen as becoming, at least in part, another species. Because that's what performs that role. Other species, not other members of the species. How harpies would take a Trans-harpy? No idea, but probably not very well.
At this time it isn't possible to be truly change sex in the real world, but we can come pretty close. Hormone therapies, surgeries, etc relate to this.
This brings us to gender. Genders are social constructs that center around biological sex. Sex is what your body is. Gender is what you and the rest of the world think that particular body means.
Changing genders is possible. You and society just have to agree that you are are no longer one and are now the other. In practice it's pretty messy, but the core is simple.
Now what this means for single-sex species that rely on other species to reproduce... who knows? Do harpies even have genders? Perhaps gender centers around whether a harpy has reproduced? Those that do are one, those that don't are another?
Another thought to consider is whether or not even if you can get a male harpy whether or not they can breed to get more males. the fact that the children of harpies are always female harpies suggests something about their genetics and reproduction. Perhaps their uterus is simply lethal to any sperm carrying a Y chromosome?Or we can stop killing catgirls and just assume that it's part of the magical nature of harpies that their children are always female.
In the WOWD20 bestiary, Harpies captured and made use of humanoid males until mistreatment and disease wore them out, and switched their status to food source.
The Greeks as far as we know never bothered asking the question. Harpies simply were punishment inflicted by the Gods who presumably just created them ex nihilo, and after that no longer paid any attention to them.
Ima keep shoving catgirls into this box until it pops dammit.
The same bestiary postulates (don't have it on hand it's in a tote somewhere) that those same harpies are divinely punished elves.
Here is something to consider.
Something to think about. If you associate reproduction with a future in delicious man meats what does it say about you if you want to become a thing emulating that man meat?
Me: finds out about Ulfen, the obligatory Viking expy culture
Me: how easily can I shunt my obligatory argr/bæddel characters into this culture
Me: please tell me this is allowed in Pathfinder Society so I can make my obligatory Ulfen self-insert
Are you asking for a third sex Viking?Me: finds out about Ulfen, the obligatory Viking expy culture
Me: how easily can I shunt my obligatory argr/bæddel characters into this culture
Me: please tell me this is allowed in Pathfinder Society so I can make my obligatory Ulfen self-insert
I am a third sex Viking.
I'm just wondering if in PFS, it is allowed for me to put in the gender field something other than male or female or even just leave it blank.
The only thing I register on the PFS character list is name, class, and faction. Everything else is on my character sheet.Are you asking for a third sex Viking?Me: finds out about Ulfen, the obligatory Viking expy culture
Me: how easily can I shunt my obligatory argr/bæddel characters into this culture
Me: please tell me this is allowed in Pathfinder Society so I can make my obligatory Ulfen self-insertI am a third sex Viking.
I'm just wondering if in PFS, it is allowed for me to put in the gender field something other than male or female or even just leave it blank.
Excellent!