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| 56 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Please make Pack Flanking a combat feat.
With the release of the ACG errata last night, a lot of stuff got fixed. This specific issue remained unaddressed. Now this feat was made to function as intended by this change"In the Pack Flanking feat’s Benefit section, add “both” before “considered to be flanking”." But it still has a glaring issue. I did my due diligence and posted this in the "acg issues thread". Overall this was mentioned I think three times. But it's easy for those few posts to get lost in the multitude of other things brought up in that thread. I brought it up once and didn't feel the need to repeat it. It was not addressed in the first wave, so I would love for this to make it in the FAQ so that it can be official as I feel it should be (I really don't want to wait another year to see this addressed if at all possible...).
It's not labeled as a combat feat. Flanking is a term defined in the combat section of the CRB. The feat has a prereq which is a combat feat.
Pack Flanking (Teamwork)
You and your companion creature are adept at fighting together against foes.
Prerequisite(s): Int 13, Combat Expertise, ability to acquire an animal companion.
Benefit: When you and your companion creature have this feat, your companion creature is adjacent to you or sharing your square, and you both threaten the same opponent, you both are considered to be flanking that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.
Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent.
Opponents are a combat-only thing. Flanking is a combat-only thing. This feat does literally nothing outside the context of combat. This is a combat feat in everything but the label.
This is important for a Brawler - Wild Child that is trying to use Martial Flexibility to qualify for this feat. It's also important for anyone multiclassing that wants to take this as a bonus feat that can only take combat bonus feats.
So if you have any inkling of a thought that this should be a combat feat please hit the FAQ button. Or if you can explain to me why it shouldn't be please enlighten me.
Mark's thoughts from HERE from me asking much the same question (though much less verbose).
It should likely be a combat feat. I can't remember if that's in the errata or lot. There's a lot of errata, so I don't have them memorized. It wasn't in the ACG potential errata thread though. If it was there and an actual mistake, it would be nearly a guarantee to be in the errata.Here's a question. Pack Flanking is a teamwork feat from the ACG. It has a prereq of Combat Expertise which is a combat feat. Its sole feature is to give flanking which is a combat-only term/ability/whatever. Is it supposed to be a combat feat? If not, can you explain why it isn't a combat feat?
bonus: if it is supposed to be a combat feat, can you tell me if the ACG errata will address this?
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Multiclassing aside, brawler (wild child) can not benefit from this feat directly as your animal companion itself (probably) doesn't qualify for the feat. You animal companion ALSO needs this feat. But to get the feat on the animal companion, your animal companion needs to have the ability to get an animal companion.
Classes like hunters get around this by sharing the teamwork feats they have with their companion.
Note this is the only teamwork feat i can think of that only benefits that particular pair of participants. 2 hunters with this feat wouldn't benefit off each others animal companions, only their own.
It is technically possible for the primary animal companion to have animal ally, thus having the capability to take this feat.
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Multiclassing aside, brawler (wild child) can not benefit from this feat directly as your animal companion itself (probably) doesn't qualify for the feat. You animal companion ALSO needs this feat. But to get the feat on the animal companion, your animal companion needs to have the ability to get an animal companion.
Classes like hunters get around this by sharing the teamwork feats they have with their companion.
Note this is the only teamwork feat i can think of that only benefits that particular pair of participants. 2 hunters with this feat wouldn't benefit off each others animal companions, only their own.
It is technically possible for the primary animal companion to have animal ally, thus having the capability to take this feat.
I understand your response so please don't take this as me being rude, but this has absolutely no bearing on my request and frankly isn't relevant.
I quoted the feat in its entirety and can see by the first part of the benefit that both the animal companion and the PC need the feat to benefit from it. I am intimately familiar with how this feat functions and am well aware of its shortcomings, hence me posting this.
As you mentioned, multiclassing aside, I can think of two ways off the top of my head that a wild child brawler could get this feat onto his animal companion without having to multiclass at all. If you care to check my post history you'll see that I've written more than my fair share of posts that include a number of ways to share teamwork feats. Though honestly I wouldn't suggest it as I've written a lot of posts.
Again, sorry if this came off as rude, that wasn't my intention.
Is it of your opinion that this does not appear that it should be a combat feat?
I pressed the FAQ button. I really don't have anything to add to your OP, I agree with it. I don't think you'll get a discussion going unless someone pops up who vehemently disagrees.
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I pressed the FAQ button. I really don't have anything to add to your OP, I agree with it. I don't think you'll get a discussion going unless someone pops up who vehemently disagrees.
I understand, I completely agree that there isn't bound to be conversation unless someone disagrees. There's just no way to keep it where people where see it if I (or others) don't say something to bring it back to the front.
For the record, FAQ and Errata are not the same thing at all.
FAQs are how the devs answer questions, explaining the rules WITHOUT changing them. Errata are how the devs actually change the rules and ultimately print new editions of the books with the new rules in them.
As to your question, many Teamwork feats are only usable in combat and many of them have the wording "opponents" just like Pack Flanking does, and yet they're still not "combat" feats. It's actually quite common. So the logic that Pack Flanking can only be used in combat, and that the word "opponents" implies combat is valid but it's obviously not a compelling argument to make the feat a categorically combat feat - if it were, then it must also be done for a whole lot of other feats with similar circumstances and wording.
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For the record, FAQ and Errata are not the same thing at all.
FAQs are how the devs answer questions, explaining the rules WITHOUT changing them. Errata are how the devs actually change the rules and ultimately print new editions of the books with the new rules in them.
Obviously. But both errata and FAQs get posted in the same place if the errata is important enough that it's also an FAQ. And there is no "errata request" button which is what the FAQ button doubles as.
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Well they released the Errata for this right? And it wasn't changed. Make it seem less like a mistake and more like it was intentional now.
I know that it might have been missed and potentially could be changed. It's just harder now.
Well, I wouldn't bother with it since you need 13 INT on your animal companion to benefit from it anyway. So, the combat label is the least of his problems. Either they rewrite it, or just ignore it as one other botched feat.
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Well, I wouldn't bother with it since you need 13 INT on your animal companion to benefit from it anyway. So, the combat label is the least of his problems. Either they rewrite it, or just ignore it as one other botched feat.
I quoted the feat in its entirety and can see by the first part of the benefit that both the animal companion and the PC need the feat to benefit from it. I am intimately familiar with how this feat functions and am well aware of its shortcomings, hence me posting this.
As you mentioned, multiclassing aside, I can think of two ways off the top of my head that a wild child brawler could get this feat onto his animal companion without having to multiclass at all (and still benefit from the feat without needing 13 int). If you care to check my post history you'll see that I've written more than my fair share of posts that include a number of ways to share teamwork feats. Though honestly I wouldn't suggest it as I've written a lot of posts.
Nice, now we just need to clarify how your animal companion can meet the prerequisites
Nice, now we just need to clarify how your animal companion can meet the prerequisites
Be a Hunter so that the animal companion can ignore the prerequisites?
or an Inquisitor, or an eldrich guardian fighter, or get the saddle that gives your mount your teamwork feats.
AT the PDT, for teamwork feats that require ability to have a familiar, mount, or eidolon, Do familiars, mounts, and eidolons, ignore that requirement for the feat? Or are those feats only for hunters*?
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Thanks for the update ^_^. I've been so focused on Fallout 4 I've been neglecting my paizo forum duties and completely missed this. Thanks for finding time to address this. Only reason I saw this one come up was because it was mentioned in another FAQ thread I've been keeping my eye on which is the bardic masterpiece one.