Rapid Shot / Double Weapon + BAB +6

[Shyrak]

Hi there.

I'm pretty new to Pathfinder so please be patient with me. As far as I know you can attack 2 times after you get a BAB of +6.

Let's say I'm jusing a Double Weapon (e.g. Orcish Double Axe) or a Bow with Rapid Shot I also get 2 attacks.

Does that mean I get 4 attacks (2 from the BAB, 2 from the Feat/Double Weapon)?
Or does the feat/Double Weapon only trigger on the first hit and not on the second? That would mean I can make 3 attacks.

Please help me. Thank you. :)

[Johnico]

You would get three attacks. Rapid Shot and the Double Weapon give you one extra attack at your highest BAB.

So you'd go +6(BAB)/+6(Rapid Shot)/+1(BAB).

Keeping in mind that Rapid Shot and using the extra attack from the Double Weapon give a penalty to all of your attacks that I didn't account for above (I was only listing the BAB you'd have, no other modifiers).

[Shyrak]

Alright. Thank you. :)

[Kudaku]

I think the axe is confusing things so I'll use daggers as an example instead:

Assuming you have Quickdraw and Rapid Shot, you can throw up to four daggers each round. 1 from BAB +6, 1 from BAB +1, 1 from Rapid Shot and 1 from using the Two-weapon Fighting rules.

Edit: Ah, never mind. I thought you were asking how TWF and RS interact, not how they work on their own. ☺

[Kazaan]

If you had a Double Weapon, were using TWF rules to get an off-hand attack, and also wanted to drop the axe in order to use your Bow with Rapid Shot, you'd do the following:

Axe(main-hand) +6(-4)/Axe(off-hand) +6(-4)/[drop axe, quickdraw Bow] Bow +1(-4)/Bow(Rapid Shot) +6(-4)

Or, you could start with the Bow and switch to the Axe. You only need to order iteratives from high BAB so the remaining attacks can be shuffled where you please.

[Nefreet]

Kudaku wrote:

☺

I... Had no idea you could post emoji on these forums.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Kazaan wrote:

If you had a Double Weapon, were using TWF rules to get an off-hand attack, and also wanted to drop the axe in order to use your Bow with Rapid Shot, you'd do the following:

Axe(main-hand) +6(-4)/Axe(off-hand) +6(-4)/[drop axe, quickdraw Bow] Bow +1(-4)/Bow(Rapid Shot) +6(-4)

Or, you could start with the Bow and switch to the Axe. You only need to order iteratives from high BAB so the remaining attacks can be shuffled where you please.

TWF isn't meant to work like that.

You get two iteratives, one for your Main-hand (which scales as your BAB), and one for your Off-hand (which has its own scale via the TWF feat chain). You must designate ahead of time which weapon (or quiver/container of weapons in terms of thrown ammunition, like daggers or shuriken) you are using for each iterative set, and that you must have them out and ready to use for the entire action (so you can't draw weapons in the middle of your TWF action).

This means you can't use a Bow (which requires two hands) and another weapon that requires a physical hand to use (such as a sword or axe, or even Armor Spikes).

FAQ here has all the details.

**EDIT**

In the interest of covering all of the bases, here's this rule regarding an archetype and it mentions Rapid Shot:

Bow Nomad - Twin Bows wrote:

Extra attacks from other sources, such as those granted by Manyshot or Rapid Shot, can be applied to only one of the wielded bows per round.

Extrapolating that, if you did find a way to wield both a double weapon and a Bow, only the Bow iterative would get the Rapid Shot attack. It would also lead to Multi-Weapon Fighting, and not Two-Weapon Fighting.

So, let's say Orc Double Axe, Unarmed Strike, and Composite Long Bow with Rapid Shot and MWF, would go as follows:

Orc Double Axe +4/-1, +4
Unarmed Strike +4
Composite Long Bow +2/+2

[Kudaku]

Nefreet wrote:

Kudaku wrote:

☺

I... Had no idea you could post emoji on these forums.

It's probably a quirk from posting on an android phone. ☺

[James Risner]

Kudaku wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Kudaku wrote:

☺

I... Had no idea you could post emoji on these forums.

It's probably a quirk from posting on an android phone. ☺

A friend operates a major site, where they have code to normalize all the unicode characters to be standard characters before their scripts that look for specific sequences of characters. So you can't use other language characters that look the same to evade content filters.

I figured it would be as easy as pasting in the character, but it isn't. Interesting.

[Kazaan]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Kazaan wrote:

If you had a Double Weapon, were using TWF rules to get an off-hand attack, and also wanted to drop the axe in order to use your Bow with Rapid Shot, you'd do the following:

Axe(main-hand) +6(-4)/Axe(off-hand) +6(-4)/[drop axe, quickdraw Bow] Bow +1(-4)/Bow(Rapid Shot) +6(-4)

Or, you could start with the Bow and switch to the Axe. You only need to order iteratives from high BAB so the remaining attacks can be shuffled where you please.

TWF isn't meant to work like that.

You get two iteratives, one for your Main-hand (which scales as your BAB), and one for your Off-hand (which has its own scale via the TWF feat chain). You must designate ahead of time which weapon (or quiver/container of weapons in terms of thrown ammunition, like daggers or shuriken) you are using for each iterative set, and that you must have them out and ready to use for the entire action (so you can't draw weapons in the middle of your TWF action).

This means you can't use a Bow (which requires two hands) and another weapon that requires a physical hand to use (such as a sword or axe, or even Armor Spikes).

FAQ here has all the details.

**EDIT**

In the interest of covering all of the bases, here's this rule regarding an archetype and it mentions Rapid Shot:

Bow Nomad - Twin Bows wrote:

Extra attacks from other sources, such as those granted by Manyshot or Rapid Shot, can be applied to only one of the wielded bows per round.

Extrapolating that, if you did find a way to wield both a double weapon and a Bow, only the Bow iterative would get the Rapid Shot attack. It would also lead to Multi-Weapon Fighting, and not Two-Weapon Fighting.

So, let's say Orc Double Axe, Unarmed Strike, and Composite Long Bow with Rapid Shot and MWF, would go as follows:

Orc Double Axe +4/-1, +4
Unarmed Strike +4
Composite Long Bow +2/+2

The point is valid only for starting with the Bow. I forgot that it would eat an off-hand attack. But if you have already met your off-hand commitment, additional main-hand attacks may be made two-handed. That comes directly from the devs. Furthermore, you can very well draw new weapons; that's how you TWF with thrown weapons. But if you've only taken penalties for a light off-hand, you must use a light weapon for your off-hand. So I can very well be wielding a pair of Daggers and have ITWF and throw the Daggers for my first iterative and first off-hand, then draw a pair of Shuriken (free action to draw by default since they are treated as ammo) and throw those because I'm still only using light weapons in my off-hand. Additionally, if I were to have 3 iteratives, but only 2 off-hand, I could have a Longsword and a Dagger and do any of the following combinations:

1) Longsword +11(-2)/Dagger +11(-2)/Longsword 2-h +6(-2)/Longsword 2-h +1(-2)
2) Longsword 2-h +11(-2)/Dagger +6(-2)/Longsword +6(-2)/Longsword 2-h +1(-2)
3) Longsword +11(-2)/Dagger +6(-2)/Longsword +6(-2)/Dagger +6(-2)/Longsword +1(-2)

Taking the penalties gives you "permission" to make an off-hand, but you don't necessarily need to have the weapon in-hand. Conversely, just because you have taken the penalty doesn't mean you must follow through.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Remember that if you tried to TWF with a Bow and one end of a Double Weapon, you either wouldn't be able to do it at all (because you're breaking the unwritten rule and getting 2.x multiplier to Strength, or because Double Weapons can't work that way), or either your Bow or the one end of your Double Weapon will count as an Off-Hand Weapon.

I'd also say a lot of people would argue that you need to be able to access all of your weapons simultaneously. (I'm not saying you need a hand for each thrown weapon, they get the green card, but you do need at least one hand to hold on to a Bow, and another open one to Fire with, and a Double Weapon is considered a Two-Handed Weapon, even if you're attacking with only one end of it.)

[Diego Rossi]

Kazaan wrote:

If you had a Double Weapon, were using TWF rules to get an off-hand attack, and also wanted to drop the axe in order to use your Bow with Rapid Shot, you'd do the following:

Axe(main-hand) +6(-4)/Axe(off-hand) +6(-4)/[drop axe, quickdraw Bow] Bow +1(-4)/Bow(Rapid Shot) +6(-4)

Or, you could start with the Bow and switch to the Axe. You only need to order iteratives from high BAB so the remaining attacks can be shuffled where you please.

PRD -Rapid Shot wrote:

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon,

In your example you aren't making a full attack with a ranged weapon, you are using a mix of melee and ranged weapons.