| Ephemarel |
Here's my build for a monk so far. I'm looking for any advice on places I need to shore it up and ideas on how to make it better. (Also feel free to check my math. Adding all if these modifiers reminds me if doing taxes. Never was my strongest suit.)
Evelyn the Inebriated
Human Monk (Drunken Master & Qinggong Archetypes)
STR 13 (+1) DEX 13 (+1) CON 16 (+3) INT 10 (0) WIS 14 (+2) CHA 9 (-1)
(Using a 15 point buy)
Favored class bonus +1 Ki/4 levels
Inspired: (1×/day), roll twice on a skill check, take better result
Quain Martial Artist: +1 damage to all unarmed attacks
Level 1: Flurry of Blows
Stunning Fist
Unarmed Strike
AC Bonus
Level 2: Evasion
Level 3: Fast Movement
Maneuver Training
Drunken Ki (dm)
Level 4: Ki Pool
Barkskin (qinggong)
Level 5: Drunken Strength (dm)
Feather Step (qinggong)
Level 7: Wholeness of Body
Level 8: retrain Feather Step into Dragon's Breath (qinggong)
Level 9: Improved Evasion
Level 10: retrain Wholeness of Body into Ki Leech (qinggong)
Level 11: Drunken Courage (dm)
Level 12: Abundant Step
Level 13: Drunken Resilience (dm)
Level 15: Ki Shout (qinggong)
Level 17: Quivering Palm (qinggong)
Wholeness of Body or Diamond Body (qinggong)
Level 19: Firewater Breath (dm)
Level 20: Perfect Self
Level 1: Dodge (monk)
Crane Style
Enforcer (human bonus)
Level 2: Deflect Arrows (monk)
Level 3: Fast Drinker
Level 5: Crane Wing
Level 6: Combat Reflexes (monk)
Level 7: Barroom Brawler
Level 9: Crane Riposte
Level 10: Medusa's Wrath (monk)
Level 11: Deep Drinker
Level 13: Dimensional Agility
Level 14: Improved Critical (monk)
Level 15: Dimensional Assault
Level 18: Improved Trip (monk)
Level 17: Dimensional Dervish
Level 19: Dimensional Savant
In order bought:
Belt of Mighty Con (by level 3, for fast drinker feat), 4k belt
Amulet of Mighty Fists (merciful), 5k neck
Monk's Robe, 13k body
Drinking Horn of Bottomless Valor, 24k slotless
Stats by level 5: (+1 STR @ level 4, +2 CON w/ belt)
I expect to have a total AB of 2 (which seems pretty good to me, considering I'm using flurry and fighting defensively) and a grand total of 1d8+1d6+3 nonlethal damage with three attacks/round (by spending Ki) plus stunned and shaken effects each round (Stunning Fist & Enforcer). I should have an AC of around 21 after Barkskin, +4 AC with an ally caster using wand of mage armor, +4 AC if spending 1 Ki, and an additional +4 AC against one attack per round (19 touch AC, 16 flat footed w/o mage armor). About 43 HP (training up to max 60 HP during downtime). Saving throws: fort 8, reflex 5 (plus evasion), will 6. CMB 7, CMD 19.
I plan at level 12 to retrain Crane Riposte, Deep Drinker, and Enforcer into the dimensional feats during any downtime in town, so that at level 12 I can make 5 attacks (8 with Medusa`s Wrath and 1 Ki) on any combination of creatures within sight (flanking w/ myself using D. Savant, shaken effects on all via Enforcer). Barroom Brawler temporarily gives me D. Savant, Blind Fight, Elemental Fist, Perfect Strike, Lunge, Punishing Kick, Hammer the Gap, or another feat that I can customize to the combat (not to mention meshes perfectly with my bar-frequenting character). Other features include a massive and constantly replenishing Ki Pool (Drunken Ki and Ki Leech), three AoE attacks at levels 8, 15, & 19 with scaling damage, and I can basically deflect one melee and one ranged attack per round.
My main worry is AB - I've tried to optimize AC and damage potential without conceding my AB, and the idea is that I should throw out enough attacks in a round that some of them are bound to hit and do decent damage. I've only ever played a bard and a rogue before, and that as a newbie, so I'm not used to being effective in combat at all (Heh, perhaps I shouldn't have started with a monk then. :P I only found out about the general disdain for monks after I fell in love with them, and I fancy I've done at least a half decent job at making it a viable dps/tank.) Any advice would be much appreciated!
| Arachnofiend |
Picking a CR 5 enemy at random, the Bearded Devil has an AC of 19. Meaning that you'd need a 17 on the die to even hit.
It is quite possible to build a viable Monk... but I'm not sure if you can do it with that point buy. If you really want to play a "Monk" more than being concerned about having DPR, a Sensei/Ki Mystic/Qinggong build would serve you well. Focus entirely on wisdom and use your abilities for support; take Mantis Style for your style feat and use Stunning Fist to debuff.
A Zen Archer is another build SAD enough to survive on such a low point buy but traditional Monks just straight up do not work with 15 points.
| Qaianna |
All depends on hwo you see your monk in combat, I guess. I've seen one guide suggest a little more of a brute force approach, but the writer did admit it was less graceful martial artist and more Rocky Balboa, in my own words.
One thing you might have to let go of is fighting defensively as often as you're thinking of. DPS doesn't do much good if you can't hit the foe ...
| BadBird |
Monk is already a class considered to have issues hitting things, and you've got a Monk with a very weak strength for melee. That's really going to hurt, or rather not hurt, since you'll be missing like crazy - and doing little more than tickling when you actually land a hit. You're even depriving yourself of a strength belt, so there's no hope there.
With a 15-point buy on a Monk, Dual Talent Human is a godsend. Still, Monk already has enough stat-issues without needing 18CON. I would ignore Fast Drinker and just 'fill up' between fights. Something like 15/17STR, 12DEX, 14CON, 10INT, 13/15WIS, 8CHA will be quite functional.
Dragon Style is extremely useful for making unarmed hits actually count, so if you have the feats for it, using Combat Style Master to switch between Dragon and Crane would be very effective.
If you really want to be picking up fun accessory feats, consider a little multiclass Fighter.
Note that these points are focused on trying to make your concept work; if you want a really powerful Monk, I would go a different direction. My personal favorite is the sword-fu monk, potentially with some multiclassing. I could post something if you like; other people have made other good suggestions.
| My Self |
Have you checked out the Unchained Monk? It gets full BAB, a more mobile flurry, and Qinggong powers baked in. Granted, you lose some of the best goodies (good will save, ability to be the drunken master), but you can make a 2-handed power attack build that can flurry.
With your current build, I'd probably swap Deflect Arrows and Combat Reflexes. Depending on how much you think you'll be seeing archers, extra attacks of opportunity will probably help more. Fast Drinker you might want to save up for a little later because of the CON requirement. The build is really flavorful and I imagine it would look awesome and be fun to play, but DPS-wise, you won't be dishing out much. Depends on your party, really, but unless you're playing with a bard and a wizard, you're going to get battered around plenty without giving back much.
If you can, ask your GM for a Guided Amulet of Mighty Fists. It'll make your point buy much simpler. Also consider dropping your Charisma (sorry :( ), because there isn't a whole lot it'll be doing for you in combat or out of combat.
| ekibus |
I would second the unchained monk, even though you lose the archetypes you really need to do something about your hit. Also with the d10 hd you could maybe look at lowering your con and adding to your dex. Maybe get your dex up, take finesse and keep your str at 13 for power attack. Also I would pick up weapon focus since I'm using power attack. with 15 point though it would be rough maybe Str 13 Dex 17 con 12 int 10 wis 15 and cha 7. Lvl 4 bump up dex and at 8 wis then keep it going.
At level 5 you could still get bark armor. with flurry and power attack...not to mention hammerblow you could have about +8 to hit and be hitting for 1d8+5 per hit with a bonus 1D8 if you hit for hammerblow.
| BadBird |
BadBird, I would love a look at sword fu and whatever other suggestions you have.
The Unchained Monk that people are mentioning is a new re-working of the Monk that has some significant advantages, like having more Base Attack Bonus. Most of what I've put down here works with the Unchained Monk as well, but the special Sohei archetype doesn't work with it, which has some downsides.
In general a sword-Monk works like a normal one, but they use a sword in two hands instead of punching. This means they don't get special Monk unarmed strike bonuses, but they get to use a better weapon that's easy to enchant. There are a couple of one-handed swords that can be used with Flurry of Blows, and Flurry of Blows can be done with one of these weapons held in two hands (flurry is never 1.5xSTR even if with two hands, but Power Attack still gets a two-hand bonus). So for a powerful sword-Monk with a temple sword:
Dual Talent Human (15pt): 14/16 STR, 12 DEX, 14 CON, 10INT , 14/16 WIS, 8 CHA. Strength is improved every time. A Belt of Strength and a Headband of Wisdom should be picked up and improved as you go.
Sohei Monk Archetype - you lose Stunning Fist and quite a few of the normal Monk powers. But, you gain a special Initiative power that makes you very fast to act, plus special weapon-based stuff. You are also allowed to wear light armor and still use Flurry of Blows, but I like to stick with high wisdom because eventually it gets better than light armor.
Qinggong Monk Archetype - this is an archetype that lets you swap out normal Monk abilities for more 'magic' stuff. With this build, I'll only swap out High Jump at 5 for the ability to cast Barkskin - which is a long-duration spell that gives you a big bonus to your natural armor.
1. Toughness / +Monk Bonus Feat: Dodge
2. +Monk Bonus Feat: Mounted Combat
3. Power Attack
4. *Ki Pool*
5. Crane Style / *Qinggong Power: Barkskin*
6. *Weapon Training: Monk Weapons* / +Monk Bonus Feat: Mounted Skirmisher
7. Crane Wing
8.
9. Crane Riposte
Weapon Training is like the Fighter ability that makes you a bit better with a chosen group of weapons. As great as this is, the really cool thing is that any weapon a Sohei has Weapon Training in gets the ability to go through damage resistance that Monks usually only get with their fists (!) and can be used with Flurry of Blows (!). Also, once you can afford the item Gloves of Dueling, they will make you even more skilled with your Weapon Training weapons...
The group Monk Weapons includes the swords that a Monk can usually flurry with, and is a good choice since you're already using a temple sword.
The Crane Style feat makes the 'fight defensively' thing much better - you only lose -2ab, and if you have some Acrobatics skill you gain +4AC. You may not want to use this when making Flurry of Blows attacks early on since it hurts accuracy a lot, but sometimes - like when you charge - it can be useful.
Crane Wing improves defenses even more if you have one hand free. To use it, use a free action at the end of your turn to change your sword grip from two hands to one, and then next turn when you're going to attack, go back to a two-handed grip again. Cycling between one and two hands gives you a cool flowing kung-fu fighting style that makes the most of your attack and defense abilities.
Finally, Crane Riposte reduces the penalty to only -1ab, and by this point you should be good at hitting things and use it all the time. The best thing about Crane Riposte is that once per round when you 'block' with Crane Wing, you get a free attack against the chump who missed you with the temple sword you're still holding in one hand.
For armor you're starting out with 16 Wisdom, which gives you a 3AC 'armor' effect - similar to an OK light armor. You've got Dodge which helps a little and 1 more AC from dexterity, but your armor is kind of weak to start. As Monk levels go up you will get some bonus armor, which helps a bit, and you can buy a Headband of Wisdom (and later a better one) which helps a bit more.
What helps you get good defense is that when you get Barkskin at level 5 you can give yourself +3AC, and it becomes +4AC at 6, +5AC at 9, etc. This is much more than you could get from the normal natural AC amulet people usually get. Once you start using Crane Style and Crane Wing you get a huge +4/+6 armor bonus, and you're now 'well armored' even though you have a robe on.
If you ever ride a horse or other mount into battle, there are very powerful abilities and feats you can use with it as well.
This is a solid and powerful Monk that's simple to do (at least simple by good Monk standards). There are ways to use one level of Cleric on a Monk for interesting benefits like making a sword-Monk who fights with dexterity instead of Strength, but it's more complicated. If you like the idea of a scimitar-Monk who worships Sarenrae, I can show you that one too.