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there's some idea of a 'bad touch cleric'? here's a 'bad kick monk'. I came up with this when looking at options for my Merciless Butchery character. It's way easier coming up with nastiness when you don't need to shoehorn in a slayer level somewhere.
race: half-elf (no alternate abilities!)
class: unchained thug rogue 5/unchained monk 5/sorcerer 2 (protean bloodline)
stats Str 8, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 13
feats (and other choices)
1 thug Enforcer, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Weapon Finesse (use a sap for your first 3 levels)
2 thug rogue talent: surprise attack (it's not Improved Initiative, but it'll do)
3 thug Fearless Curiosity (you count as a human)
4 monk Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows (maybe)
5 monk Mantis Style, Combat Reflexes (again maybe)
6 monk --
7 monk Mantis Wisdom, ki power: ki range (for when throwing a surprise round dart at someone, another option is switching the 2nd level rogue talent minor magic for acid splash)
8 monk style strike: spin kick
9 sorcerer Mantis Torment
10 thug rogue talent: combat trick: Sorcerous Strike
11 thug Dauntless Destiny, skill unlock: Intimidate
12 sorcerer --
1. A bad guy is standing next to you.
2. You full attack the bad guy. Your first attack is for non-lethal damage, is a spin kick, and is also a Stunning Fist attempt.
3. If you hit,
a) you deal sneak attack damage
b) you can reduce the sneak attack damage by 1d6 in order to cause the sickened status
c) you may attempt to demoralize, possibly causing the shakened status (or worse)
d) your opponent must make a saving throw (possibly at a -4 penalty) or be stunned (which sets up the rest of your attacks this round to deal sneak attack damage)
e) and as a swift action, you can coat your opponent in protoplasm, causing the entangled status
In other words, with one kick you can scare, sicken, stun, and slime. That's some kick!
If you're all out of protoplasm for the day, you're probably not yet out of Stunning Fist charges, and you haven't even touched your ki pool. If you're out of everything, you still get spin kick+sneak attack. Or you can just rock a wand of magic missile.
Any ideas to improve this wonderful mess?
maybe come up with a different name like 'AM STATUS EFFECT' or something?
I'd actually suggest taking Cleric in place of Sorcerer and grabbing Domain Strike instead of Sorcerous Strike. It's dependent on Wis, which makes you less MAD, and there's some pretty nasty non-scaling, no save effects.
As for domains, I'd look into taking two of the following:
Darkness
Chaos
Repose
Law or Evil with the Devil subdomain
Weather
Evil
With two domains, you shouldn't run out of bad kicks for a looong time and its only 1 level of dip too.
Full Inquisitor with Sanctified Slayer and VMC Rogue can do the job pretty well.
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ohako wrote: maybe come up with a different name like 'AM STATUS EFFECT' or something? Given the array of status effects given, I think the "Nutcracker Kick" or the "Johnny Cage Special" would be more appropriate. I'm definitely feeling a "hit to the groin" vibe from this.
Tsutsuku wrote: I'd actually suggest taking Cleric in place of Sorcerer and grabbing Domain Strike instead of Sorcerous Strike. It's dependent on Wis, which makes you less MAD, and there's some pretty nasty non-scaling, no save effects.
As for domains, I'd look into taking two of the following:
Darkness
Chaos
Repose
Law or Evil with the Devil subdomain
Weather
Evil
With two domains, you shouldn't run out of bad kicks for a looong time and its only 1 level of dip too.
Good idea! It looks like Domain Strike only lets you kick with one domain, but luckily there are a lot of archetypes that give a cleric only one domain. I kinda wish there would be a good way other than UMD to gain access to mage armor even if that is late.
I'll have to go through and figure out the right deity, the right domain, and the right archetype, but yeah, I can switch the stats around to
Str 8 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 12
I think that two levels in cleric (or sorcerer) is probably better than one for this build, just because of the Will save bonus.
EDIT: oop, I can't quite do that stat spread and keep Fearless Curiosity at 3rd. hmmm.
The problem with domain strike is that domain powers scale with cleric/inquisitor/druid level. If you only have a level or two, they are underwhelming in duration or effect.
Imbicatus wrote: The problem with domain strike is that domain powers scale with cleric/inquisitor/druid level. If you only have a level or two, they are underwhelming in duration or effect.
that's not entirely true.
Chaos Domain has an awesome non-scaling debuff, so does Repose.
Devil is nice, even when it lasts only one round
Imbicatus wrote: The problem with domain strike is that domain powers scale with cleric/inquisitor/druid level. If you only have a level or two, they are underwhelming in duration or effect.
That's why I suggested the domains I did. All of them are perfectly viable and massively annoying to your opponent at level 1. I left off the ones that don't get sufficiently annoying until 4 or 6. :)
ohako wrote:
Good idea! It looks like Domain Strike only lets you kick with one domain, but luckily there are a lot of archetypes that give a cleric only one domain. I kinda wish there would be a good way other than UMD to gain access to mage armor even if that is late.
If you only want one domain and would like your wisdom to work a little harder, consider two levels of Inquisitor instead. You don't get as many spells but you keep a domain and get to use your Wisdom as a bonus to initiative and knowledge checks. Plus, judgment has options for increasing your AC.
Alternately, nothing's to say you can't take Domain Strike twice if you find 10 bad kicks a day is that much better than 5.
Finally, if you are that concerned about your will saves then taking one level of cleric and one level of inquisitor gives you more will save, still keeps one domain at full progression, and gives you pretty much all of the goodies except a stacking caster level (which by this build, I'm assuming CL isn't an issue you're concerned with).
On a side note, if you're looking at a 20 point buy and starting at level 12, I would consider the following spread:
Str 10, Dex 17 (advances to 20), Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 13
This qualifies you for all of your feats, and gives you a decent wisdom. If you prefer you can move 2 points of Str into Int.
Or, if you have more feats than the need to MC, you can just take Believer's Boon for a first level domain power, no multiclass needed.
If you go with Sorcerer go with Empyreal bloodline instead for MADness reasons.
I had a similar concept that I posted a long while back. Take a look at this thread for some inspiration.
alright, let's try to tighten up this bad kicker here and see if we get any better
race: plain jane half-elf
class: unchained thug rogue 5/unchained monk 5/inquisitor of Pharasma 2 (Repose domain)
stats Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
feats (and other choices)
1 thug Enforcer, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Weapon Finesse (use a sap for level 1)
2 monk Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes (grab a longspear, just in case)
3 inquisitor Domain Strike
4 monk Dodge (you don't have free hands if you're holding a longspear)
5 monk Mantis Style
6 monk ki power: ki range
7 monk Mantis Wisdom, style strike: spin kick
8 thug rogue talent: combat trick: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: elven branched spear (if you can convince a GM to let a half-elf gain this proficiency with the Heirloom Weapon trait, pick something else here)
9 thug Mantis Torment
10 thug rogue talent: combat swipe (grants Improved Steal)
11 thug Phalanx Formation?, skill unlock: Intimidate
12 inquisitor
Okay, let's unpack the changes
1. remove dependence on Cha. Dauntless Destiny is a really poor way to use an immediate action.
2. switching to Domain Strike instead of Sorcerous Strike. The best domain choices for this build are Chaos and Devil, but
a) Taking the Chaos domain is hard for a monk without switching alignments (varisian pilgrim cleric is one way around that)
b) The Devil domain can reduce saving throws as a swift action, which might not be fast enough to affect a saving throw against Stunning Fist
c) The Repose domain power can do mean things to an undead, while Enforcer and Brutal Beating won't
d) The Repose domain power gives a status (staggered) that has a representative on one of those condition cards.
Giving 4 conditions to a bad guy in one hit can be challenging for a GM. Putting down condition cards (with little skulls for round timers) will help alleviate the challenge.
3. Going inquisitor for a little dip adds some nice treats, including +3 Fort and 12 skill points instead of 4. Maybe some of those points can go to UMD for activating that wand of mage armor you'll need now.
4. Switching the level order means that you get to stagger on a punch at level 3, where you'd only sicken at level 3 if you had sneak attack. Taking the rogue levels later means you won't deal as much damage early on, but you'll always have a chance to use brutal beating on your spin kick.
5. Here's a thing you can do if you can't full-attack target
a) walk up to a bad guy
b) attack them with a non-lethal foot.
c) if you hit, use Frightening (or the Intimidate skill unlock) to frighten the bad guy
d) the bad guy moves away from you. If they do so clumsily, you might hit them with a kick or a hit from a spear (or both).
e) once you have oodles of money, get yourself a +1 sticky elven branched spear, and try to steal things as they run away from you.
So how does this stack up against the original? What feat would you choose for level 11? Or would you go ancestral weapon half-elf and forgo Skill Focus (Intimidate)? (or find a way to keep that feat, or Dauntless Destiny?)
ohako wrote: So how does this stack up against the original? What feat would you choose for level 11? Or would you go ancestral weapon half-elf and forgo Skill Focus (Intimidate)? (or find a way to keep that feat, or Dauntless Destiny?) Definitely pick up EWP with the half-elf alternate trait, having a finessable reach weapon at early levels will keep you out of trouble and there's better ways to bump your intimidate. Consider the Extremely Fashionable trait for maximum rogueness.
Other feats to consider are Piranha Strike, which is power attack for finesse builds, and Improved Initiative for getting the sneak attacks started early. I almost hate to mention it after you just carefully removed the charisma, but Intimidating Gaze is good for making your intimidates stick during boss fights.
Tsutsuku wrote: ohako wrote: So how does this stack up against the original? What feat would you choose for level 11? Or would you go ancestral weapon half-elf and forgo Skill Focus (Intimidate)? (or find a way to keep that feat, or Dauntless Destiny?) Definitely pick up EWP with the half-elf alternate trait, having a finessable reach weapon at early levels will keep you out of trouble and there's better ways to bump your intimidate. Consider the Extremely Fashionable trait for maximum rogueness.
Other feats to consider are Piranha Strike, which is power attack for finesse builds, and Improved Initiative for getting the sneak attacks started early. I almost hate to mention it after you just carefully removed the charisma, but Intimidating Gaze is good for making your intimidates stick during boss fights. Piranha Strike does look nice, but I don't think you can use it with a branched spear (it says 'light weapon'). Works with unarmed strikes though, probably something to consider over Phalanx Formation. Intimidating Gaze is really bad, worse than the Inspired trait by a lot.
Okay, if I go Ancestral Arms for the alt racial trait, I'm thinking Elven Reflexes and something intimidaty for traits.
Step 1: Walk up to a bad guy, and kick him for nonlethal.
Step 2: If you hit, make a demoralize attempt. If you beat the DC by 0, then the duration of the demoralize is 1d6+1.
Step 3: If you get a 3 on damage, you can trade in those 4 rounds for one round of frightened. If you have domain strike, activate it at that point (causes staggered for 1 round).
Step 4: Now your opponent is frightened and possibly staggered. Take an AoO when they walk out of punching range, and another when they leave spear range.
This is possible by level 2, 3 for the domain strike. hee hee!
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