planar binding and what is reasonable


Advice


This is from a DMs perspective but I also have to remember that what is good for the gander is good for the goose.

My PCs are a 11th level and will be facing a NPC party that includes an 11th level conjurer.

What is a reasonable number of called creature for a conjurer to control?
My first thoughts say 2xCL and creatures of the same alignment count as 2/3rds HD.

Is follow my orders a reasonable task?
I lean towards yes.

Should called creatures be able to call more creatures?
I think not. Not sure if gate should be an exception.

How should inherent bonuses be handled?
I single bound genie can upgrade every single ally that conjurer has and then be dismissed. What if they fade after the genie is longer bound? What if a genie can remove the bonus if they can find some one to unwish it. Should the genie need to remain alive to power the bonus? The main reason I bring this up is because my PCs rule a small island. If they can they will upgrade everyone on it.

Any other thoughts?


The correct answer is, determine the CR/challenge you want to have for the fight and then set it up to be that challenge.

Ignore how or why the creatures are there, if they are there at the beginning of combat they are part of the CR. If they are summoned in after combat has started they aren't (because of the time/actions spent in combat to bring them come from someone else, they're effectively part of another characters CR).

Follow your orders is not necessarily a reasonable task. You would need to give it more specific orders, the other is too open ended.

Technically only summoned creatures are prevented from summoning more creatures. Called creature can technically call more. But again, this feeds into the CR of the encounter. And you should have already set what you want the CR to be. So sure, you can have the called creatures call more creatures but they will count against your total CR allotment.

Treat inherent bonuses as a bump in the CR of the creature, depending on how much the increase actually affects the creature. If you only increase the stat by 2 (or modifier by 1) then it's not a full CR step, but maybe increasing 4 creatures by that is worth an counting 1 creature as 1 CR higher (because we don't have CR 4.25).

Edit: Just realized this was about guidelines for the player not about handling running an NPC conjurer.

As a GM I'm not that friendly towards PC conjurers. I tell everyone at the table they can only have one permanent active minion. Whether it be a animal companion, familiar, called creatures, undead. More than that slows down the table too much, and is unfun for other players. Summons are required to have their stats written down on an index card, and if multiple summons are used other players get to run other creatures so your individual turn doesn't take so long.

As for the "obey me" command. Doesn't work. Each specific subsequent command given is evaluated for "reasonability".

Grand Lodge

Called creatures, ie not summons but Planar Binding/Ally creatures?

I would say, for called creatures, whatever the XP budget permits. Killing them should give the PCs XP, so to determine "what is enough" means determine the CR first.

Called Creatures should be able to summon others. Whether they will or not is up too you. Note however, that summoned creatures have no loyalty to the Binder, just their summoner.

For simplicity, I would not. It makes things too confusing (imo). However, wishes last indefinitely unless unwished. However, you do not need to find the same genie to unwish wishes. Knowledge of the wish and a stronger genie are all you would need.

(Bob the Janni is called by George to make a wish. This wish is known by Fred, George's enemy. Fred calls on Sally the Efreet and makes a wish to undo Bob's magic. Now Fred's wish is undone.)


I'm not so sure that "follow my orders" is entirely reasonable. Why would you give any other task if that was reasonable? It encompasses everything, and it can include many tasks.


Thanks

The main reason I bring up my NPC conjurer is that my PCs will want the same latitude with planar binding that I give to my NPC.

I do like the idea that "follow all my orders" is not a task that can be given to bound outsider.

I am thinking about the unwishing an inherent bonus. If it is done by the orginal wish granter in can be done from anywhere with no save. Otherwise it is a short range spell that allows a will save. This way you have good reason to keep the genie that granted you the wish around and happy. Also genie granted wish end if the granting genie dies. That way you can not bind, wish and kill your way into the bonuses.


The general way to deal with chain binding genies and the players getting too many wishes is to send genie hit squads against them. Which is something I imagine genies would really do.

Being as powerful as they are, they wouldn't take lightly people abducting them for wishes. You could set a precedent that it's okay to bind and kill genie-kind otherwise.

The alternative is that they also keep a humanoid around in their settlements so that he can "wish" to undo the wishes of other people that abduct or otherwise abuse genie-kind. He would otherwise be well kept and having to do no other work.

Basically no matter what you do, don't let players abuse wishes or get to many of them, just as you wouldn't abuse them against the players.


I just realized that adding 4 or 5 to all stats through wishes is the same as using the advanced template. So a wished out fellow should have his CR increase by 1.


Main point to remember: don't allow bound efreet to grant wishes. At all. Or you will probably regret it.

Freeing a genie from someone else’s binding, on the other hand, should get them a wish in gratitude.


Is a bound genie casting wish something that most DMs who play at high levels allow or not?


Both, comes down to the players, the party, the wish, and the story.

Allowing wish granting still allows room for the wish to fail, be perverted et al.


Mathius wrote:
Is a bound genie casting wish something that most DMs who play at high levels allow or not?

In general, not allowed. At best, I will allow them to free a bound genie and get a wish as a reward. But I keep wishes scare or they become highly abused.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / planar binding and what is reasonable All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.