| Firedale2002 |
Cards with the same name are supposed to be the same within the same AP. It might change across APs.
I believe it was mentioned somewhere in a different thread that the adventure paths may have different reliance for whatever reason on the basic/elite traits. They may want some cards able to be removed earlier/later than the were in previous adventure paths.
So if Glibness has Basic in WotR, then it should be Basic in WotR, even if it was Elite in RotR and S&S.
I'll see if I can find a link to the other thread.
Edit: I can't seem to find the thread in question that I seem to be remembering. I may be misremembering, so take what I said above as my opinion instead of fact. I swear I read it before, but I'm unable to provide proof at this time; I apologize.
| Malcolm_Reynolds |
Firedale: I think you remember what Vic said when I asked about the new Monkeys being elite when the RotR one was not.
He didn't say there what they had decided, though.
| zeroth_hour |
The circumstantial evidence is weird, since Sagacity and Agility are Basic versions of Wisdom and Speed. So there seems to be an acknowledgement that Wisdom and Speed are Elite and not Basic.
On the other hand, Glibness needs to be Basic in WotR (Balazar in particular), but this somewhat disrupts OP where Class Decks have Elite Glibnesses.
I understand from a design perspective, it may be a good thing to be able to vary Basicness/Eliteness; however, I think it's a nightmare from a play perspective, depending on whether the player conjures up the right version of it from the name or not, or decides to read the card.
| Malcolm_Reynolds |
Glibness' power has also changed. The WotR version works only on Charisma checks, whereas the RotR version worked on checks using your Charisma die and the Bard Class deck version worked on checks using your Charisma skill. I'm sure there is a resolution because otherwise stat stones interact with some stat buffs.
| zeroth_hour |
CD Fighter Strength has "checks using your Strength skill".
So does CD Speed (well, "checks using your Dexterity skill").
CD Wisdom, on the other hand, uses "your character's Wisdom checks".
So does CD Endurance (well, "your character's Constitution checks").
So in fact, this was a thing in the Class Decks and people only noticed in WotR.
All the RotR versions, if they were printed today, would be errata'd so I don't think they're relevant.
It's unclear whether it was a templating thing or Strength is supposed to be errata'd to use the same thing as Agility/Sagacity/etc
However, I actually disagree with Hawkmoon in the Balazar thread about whether or not the "checks using your X skill" would apply to a check that adds an X skill or a skill that is based on the X skill. My opinion is that it was intended to be for checks that say "use the X skill" all along and it was just crossover templating issues or whatever in RotR and S&S.
Andrew L Klein
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Glibness' power has also changed. The WotR version works only on Charisma checks, whereas the RotR version worked on checks using your Charisma die and the Bard Class deck version worked on checks using your Charisma skill. I'm sure there is a resolution because otherwise stat stones interact with some stat buffs.
RotR didn't differentiate between die and skill. All versions of the same card work the same. RotR's version affects the skill.
To my knowledge there are no cards that buff the stat stones because no cards buff dice instead of skills. Well, I guess you have Mythic Paths that replace those dice.
| Hawkmoon269 |
However, I actually disagree with Hawkmoon in the Balazar thread about whether or not the "checks using your X skill" would apply to a check that adds an X skill or a skill that is based on the X skill. My opinion is that it was intended to be for checks that say "use the X skill" all along and it was just crossover templating issues or whatever in RotR and S&S.
Actually, I don't think you are really disagreeing with me. What I was trying to say is that it was probably the way it was in the Class Decks because they just hadn't thought up the way you could add skills to checks without changing the check. Once they had things like Balazar and Damiel, they had to rethink a bit and decide if the wording on Strength and Glibness was sufficient to define when you could use it. They decided they didn't want Balazar using Glibness when he used Padrig, so they tweaked it. To some extent, PACG is a living game. We shouldn't be surprised that older cards create slight problems with newer cards being introduced and that they need small adjustments to clarify how they work. The great thing is, any set of cards you purchase are self consistent. S&S Potion of the Ocean isn't undone by the rule that limits you from automatically succeeding at a combat check in WotR. It is only when you mix set that these kinds of problems arise. Of course, the class decks are basically designed for you to mix sets. (So perhaps a little ruling here wouldn't hurt.)
So yeah, the latest wording probably most accurately portrays the scope of how the card should work. I'd play the old versions of the card as if they had the latest wording on them. Much like if I took a card from RotR I'd play it like it said "skill" instead of "die" because I know that is what the card is intended to do.