Unchained Monk Elf Favored Class Option and Flying Kick


Rules Questions


The elf's favored class option gives them increased base speed which follows the same restrictions as their monk movement speed.
Would this extra speed count for the purpose of the distance you can Flying Kick?

Grand Lodge

No, as it does not modify the Fast Movement ability. At level 5, the elf would have +10ft (Fast Movement) and +5ft (Favored Class), not +15 (Fast Movement).


Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:
No, as it does not modify the Fast Movement ability. At level 5, the elf would have +10ft (Fast Movement) and +5ft (Favored Class), not +15 (Fast Movement).

Not sure about that. it says "This bonus stacks with the monk's fast movement class feature and applies under the same conditions as that feature." Sound like you add (stack) it together with fast movement to me.

Grand Lodge

It stacks with Fast Movement, but it does not change fast movement. Just like if you had Haste. The additional +30ft move speed stacks with other sources of increased move speed, but does not change the Class Ability that grants the speeds it stacks with.

The issue here is if the Favored Class ability modifies Fast Movement. It does not, but it does stack in terms of calculating the final movement distance.

All the abilities add to one thing (movement) but do not add to one another.


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Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:

It stacks with Fast Movement, but it does not change fast movement. Just like if you had Haste. The additional +30ft move speed stacks with other sources of increased move speed, but does not change the Class Ability that grants the speeds it stacks with.

The issue here is if the Favored Class ability modifies Fast Movement. It does not, but it does stack in terms of calculating the final movement distance.

All the abilities add to one thing (movement) but do not add to one another.

"applies under the same conditions as that feature". Since it comes out and says to use it whenever you'd use fast move, what rational do you have for NOT using it for the unchained monk feature?

"Flying Kick: Before the attack, the monk can move a distance equal to his fast movement bonus". + "applies under the same conditions as that feature", IE fast move, seems to add up to combining them together for flying kick.

If you disagree, please explain what "applies under the same conditions as that feature" means to you.

Grand Lodge

graystone wrote:
Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:

It stacks with Fast Movement, but it does not change fast movement. Just like if you had Haste. The additional +30ft move speed stacks with other sources of increased move speed, but does not change the Class Ability that grants the speeds it stacks with.

The issue here is if the Favored Class ability modifies Fast Movement. It does not, but it does stack in terms of calculating the final movement distance.

All the abilities add to one thing (movement) but do not add to one another.

"applies under the same conditions as that feature". Since it comes out and says to use it whenever you'd use fast move, what rational do you have for NOT using it for the unchained monk feature?

"Flying Kick: Before the attack, the monk can move a distance equal to his fast movement bonus". + "applies under the same conditions as that feature", IE fast move, seems to add up to adding them together for flying kick.

If you disagree, please explain what "applies under the same conditions as that feature" means to you.

That is related to the Armor/Shield/Encomberance limits that the Fast Movement ability has. What it is saying is that if the Monk would not get Fast Movement, it also does not get the Favored Class movement bonus. They just wanted to save some words.

Also, in no way is Flying Kick a condition. It is a conditional use of Fast Movement, but that is not the same thing.


Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:
graystone wrote:
Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:

It stacks with Fast Movement, but it does not change fast movement. Just like if you had Haste. The additional +30ft move speed stacks with other sources of increased move speed, but does not change the Class Ability that grants the speeds it stacks with.

The issue here is if the Favored Class ability modifies Fast Movement. It does not, but it does stack in terms of calculating the final movement distance.

All the abilities add to one thing (movement) but do not add to one another.

"applies under the same conditions as that feature". Since it comes out and says to use it whenever you'd use fast move, what rational do you have for NOT using it for the unchained monk feature?

"Flying Kick: Before the attack, the monk can move a distance equal to his fast movement bonus". + "applies under the same conditions as that feature", IE fast move, seems to add up to adding them together for flying kick.

If you disagree, please explain what "applies under the same conditions as that feature" means to you.

That is related to the Armor/Shield/Encomberance limits that the Fast Movement ability has. What it is saying is that if the Monk would not get Fast Movement, it also does not get the Favored Class movement bonus. They just wanted to save some words.

Isn't the reverse of that, when you get your fast move bonus you also get your Favored Class movement bonus? I'm not seeing how defining it your way prevents it from being added to the flying kick.

EDIT: On condition, that means the same factors unless you are telling me there is a condition like stunned where you add your fast move when you wouldn't.

Grand Lodge

Because it is not Fast Movement. Just because they are similar does not mean they are the same. This is the actual text:

Quote:
Add +1 to the monk’s base speed. In combat this option has no effect unless the monk has selected it five times (or another increment of five). This bonus stacks with the monk’s fast movement class feature and applies under the same conditions as that feature.

They have the same limitations, yes. They effect movement, yes. But that does not mean that the Favored Class bonus alters the Fast Movement Class Feature.

To act the way you are putting forth, the Favored Class bonus should read:

Add +1ft to the monk’s Fast Movement class feature.

But it instead calls out the Monk's base speed. This means that if the monk were to Archetype out of having Fast Movement, he would still get the Favored Class Bonus.

Grand Lodge

Well, it would seem to be an option, even if you played an archetype that switched out fast movement.


Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:
Because it is not Fast Movement.

No, but so what? It just say that whenever you add one, you add the other. It says it stacks and applies under the same conditions. IMO, that means whenever you are allowed to use fast movement you also add the Favored Class bonus. I don't see any meaningful difference between the current Favored Class bonus and "Add +1ft to the monk’s Fast Movement class feature." If you still disagree, then I'll have to ask you to agree to disagree with me, as it seems clear to me that they'd add together.


I'd say it should work for the simple reason that the wording isn't perfectly clear and it's a no-win deal to go look for situations where it won't work when were talking about a measly 5 foot per 5 levels.

Just add it whenever Fast Movement speed is used for something and be done with it.

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