in many games i've played the gm would give a reflex save to avoid falling after a missed acrobatics chance. i can't find any rules for it. a running jump gives a chance to grab the other side, but on a tiny ledge and you fail acrobatic check.....you should just fall?
maybe the added reflex save is the gm's way of avoiding a crappy pc falling death...
is it just one check on a ledge and fail and you fall?
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I could see a GM extrapolating from the running jump to give a save.
I believe there is also a climb check you can make to catch yourself while falling next to a climbable surface. And I believe in several published scenarios I have seen reflex saves mentioned for failing checks.
So in short, I don't know of a specific general rule, but certainly it is a fairly wide spread case of GM judgement.
There is a rogue talent that allows you the save even if you fail by five or more.
If you fail this check by 4 or less, you can attempt a DC 20 Reflex save to grab hold of the other side after having missed the jump. If you fail by 5 or more, you fail to make the jump and fall (or land prone, in the case of a vertical jump).It's in the skill description.
thats for a running jump with at least 10 feet running room before jump. i'm talking about trying to navigate a small ledge overlooking a drop. moving at half speed and you fail acrobatics check...fall or give them second reflex save, or us same rules as running jump rules ?
If you fail this check by 4 or less, you can attempt a DC 20 Reflex save to grab hold of the other side after having missed the jump. If you fail by 5 or more, you fail to make the jump and fall (or land prone, in the case of a vertical jump).It's in the skill description.
As the OP pointed out, under strict RAW, this only applies to jumping, and not to other uses of acrobatics such as crossing narrow surfaces, avoiding AoO, or softening falls.
It would make sense as a house rule to allow a second bite at the cherry for ledge-walking (where you can catch yourself if you fall), but it would still be a house rule. And I don't think it would make sense to allow a second bite to soften a fall or tumble through someone's space.
According to RAW you only get the reflex save if you fail to cross the object with a jump by 4 or less. If you fall off a narrow surface you can only use the acrobatics to mitigate some of the falling damage.
So yes you just fall.
Good Lord am I slow. There were no response when I started my typing. lol
There is a rogue talent that allows you the save even if you fail by five or more.
Nimble Climber (Ex)
Benefit: When a rogue with this talent fails a Climb check by 5 or more, she can immediately make another Climb check at the surface’s base DC +10. If successful, she stops her fall by clinging onto the surface. The rogue does not take falling damage when she stops her fall in this manner.is this the one you meant?
second try is nice, but still at a +10....
if a rogue has to take this talent to get a second chance at a harder +10 to the dc, why would a pc get a second reflex save for free.
There is a rogue talent that allows you the save even if you fail by five or more.Nimble Climber (Ex)
Benefit: When a rogue with this talent fails a Climb check by 5 or more, she can immediately make another Climb check at the surface’s base DC +10. If successful, she stops her fall by clinging onto the surface. The rogue does not take falling damage when she stops her fall in this manner.is this the one you meant?
This feat would still not help with the situation as it has been described. This just allows reflex saves if you fail by a larger number then normal on a climb check only. Not for crossing a narrow surface. It would still have no effect if you fell off a narrow surface.
I allow this specifically because of the huge disparity in skills. Somebody with low skill points is going to have a crappy roll even at high level. Though I generally use a raw dex check. It shouldn't get easier as you go up in level.
The second chance leaves you hanging by your fingertips. If it's a situation where rounds matter, this can be an issue.
@Bran, the second chance roll is for when you fail by 1-4. Nimble climber works when the failure is higher than that.
in many games i've played the gm would give a reflex save to avoid falling after a missed acrobatics chance. i can't find any rules for it. a running jump gives a chance to grab the other side, but on a tiny ledge and you fail acrobatic check.....you should just fall?
maybe the added reflex save is the gm's way of avoiding a crappy pc falling death...
is it just one check on a ledge and fail and you fall?
No, Bran, the Kingslayer threw you out the window; no REF save for you...
As for the missed skill check, only jumping across an open space allows a REF save to avoid falling when you fail the initial skill check, but I also believe in second chances and I don't believe in unheroic crappy PC deaths from a bad skill check, so I'd probably allow it too.
No, Bran, the Kingslayer threw you out the window; no REF save for you...
As for the missed skill check, only jumping across an open space allows a REF save to avoid falling when you fail the initial skill check, but I also believe in second chances and I don't believe in unheroic crappy PC deaths from a bad skill check, so I'd probably allow it too.
ty blake,
yeah... gm makes on spot decision to allow or disallow miracle finger grab at last second lol.
I allow this specifically because of the huge disparity in skills. Somebody with low skill points is going to have a crappy roll even at high level. Though I generally use a raw dex check. It shouldn't get easier as you go up in level.
Why not? I think basic dungeon survival skills like not falling down are more likely to get easier with practice than skills like not dying when you drink a cup of arsenic (Fort save) or not being mind-controlled by the vampire (Will save).
Because for climbing the free second chance is DC+20. See Climb "Catch a wall while falling"second try is nice, but still at a +10....
if a rogue has to take this talent to get a second chance at a harder +10 to the dc, why would a pc get a second reflex save for free.
Yeah I will have to change my judgements to this one. I did not realize that climb would save you as you fall down beside a wall. I was only looking at acrobatics not climb.
so surface DC +20 for shear wall or surface DC+10 for slope.
Nimble climber would help prevent damage. So I guess you would still take 1d6 for every 10ft you failed if you did not have the feat. So you could still catch yourself and then take enough damage to go unconscious and continue to fall.