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Sorry for the noob question...
I picked up a PS adventure to run in my home game as a filler adventure for Rise of the Runelords. What are the tiers and sub-tiers mentioned in the module? I thought they represented characters (like old modules that stated "for characters 7-11") but now I'm not so sure. I've searched online but not finding the answer. Neither me nor my players are members of PS.
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Each scenario has a tier. That is the level range the scenario is designed for.
Within that are two or more subtiers. That is a more specific level range. Each encounter in the scenario has scaling for different levels.
For example, a Tier 1-5 scenario is designed for characters of levels 1 to 5. Each encounter has a subtier 1-2 version and a subtier 4-5 version. For you home game, you can use whichever subtier is closer to the level of the PCs.
Edit: also, if the scenario is the one I think it is...
...beware that it is incredibly deadly. You risk ending your campaign with a TPK. (It is in all other ways a terrific scenario.)
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Most scenarios for PFS fall into one of four tiers: 1-5, 3-7, 5-9 and 7-11. Those are the legal ranges of levels for characters to play in those scenarios. (some scenarios are tier 1-2 which are replayable at level 1, and some older scenarios are tier 1-7, but those aren't used any more).
Inside of a scenario say a 7-11 tier, in general there are two subtiers. For this one, there is subtier 7-8 (the lower subtier) and subtier 10-11 (the higher subtier). Characters of level 9 are out-of-subtier for either subtier being played. To find out which subtier to play the adventure, you calculate the average party level and play that subtier. The calculations are explained in more detail in the Guide to Organized Play on page 32.
Scenarios have encounters in them listed for each of the two subtiers with the encounters scaled for the appropriate subtier. It gets a little more complicated with scaling for four-player tables in season 5 or later, but not extremely so.
So, if you are going to play a filler scenario with a group of sixth-level characters, then you can choose from either the 3-7 tier (playing at subtier 6-7) or the 5-9 tier (playing at subtier 5-6). There are a lot of good choices to pick from, but know that early seasons are, in general, considered easier, and are scaled for 4 player tables, while season 4 and later are scaled for 6 player tables. If you give us some idea of what kind of group you have, how close you want to be to the story of RotRL, and the optimization level of your group, we might be able to give you good advice on some scenarios to choose from.
Hope you guys have great fun!
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The Fox is correct with the scenario I was planning to run. My group just finished Stones over Standpoint, heading to Storval Stairs. Currently running 6 players with 10th level characters (confusing/charming/dominating sorcorer, ranger/arcane archer with giant favored enemy, 2 barbarian dwarves, life oracle, and a scroll-laden wizard). They have been laying waste to the giants so far, even with increased CR encounters (destroyed final Hook Mountain enounter in 3 rounds with excellent use of d-door).
I appreciate everyone's input on this and the subtiers make a lot of sense now. Since PS scenarious are meant for a single-night of gaming, I'm assuming that there is no level advancement during the scenario. So, I should be running with (if my understanding is correct) subtier 10-11 for my group.
A bit off topic while I'm thinking about it, if I were to start a PS group, I'm sure I would need to contact my local Captain first. Would I need to start running Season 0/1 or use the current Season 7?
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A bit off topic while I'm thinking about it, if I were to start a PS group, I'm sure I would need to contact my local Captain first. Would I need to start running Season 0/1 or use the current Season 7?
I'm sure the local Venture-Captain would be glad to hear from you and assist, but it's not a requirement. You can run scenarios from any season. A small number have been retired (marked as such on the Paizo site).
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So, I should be running with (if my understanding is correct) subtier 10-11 for my group.
That is correct.
Just don't be surprised if it is too much for your group to handle.
I have run it for a group of six very optimized level 10 and 11 characters in PFS, and again for my home Rise of the Runelords group at level 10. It is a very tough scenario, even if they are optimized for fighting the BBEG.
The PFS group I GMed for ended up running away with 1 PC dead, 1 PC captured. They were completely out of spells.
The BBEG had taken ZERO damage, and his girlfriend had taken 4 hp of damage! And all of their buffs were still going strong.
For my home game, I ran all of the scenario except the BBEG. It is a wonderfully thematic scenario, and it makes for a few great encounters for the location. But I omitted the BBEG because I was worried that my campaign would end in TPK.
Here is my home game party composition:
Half-orc paladin (Iomedae)
Gnome bard
Dwarf musket-master/wizard
Elf evoker wizard
Human bloodrager/dragon disciple
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I appreciate everyone's input on this and the subtiers make a lot of sense now. Since PS scenarious are meant for a single-night of gaming, I'm assuming that there is no level advancement during the scenario. So, I should be running with (if my understanding is correct) subtier 10-11 for my group.
Correct, a single scenario is supposed to be equivalent to 1/3 of the XP to advance one level.
If you were to start your own PFS chapter (or join your local one), your players could all get PFS credit for having played Rise of the Runelords, even if they were not playing by PFS rules. (read the guide to organized play, under playing modules "campaign mode"
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Just don't be surprised if it is too much for your group to handle.
I'll keep this in mind as I prepare the scenario. Thank you for your insight. :)
If you were to start your own PFS chapter (or join your local one), your players could all get PFS credit for having played Rise of the Runelords, even if they were not playing by PFS rules. (read the guide to organized play, under playing modules "campaign mode"
Would that still be the case if I made modifications to the combats in the AP, such as increasing # of baddies, and sometimes adding class levels and maxing their hp (particularly for boss encounters)? I understand that a GM of a PS PFS game is not allowed to make any changes to it.
Oh, just for your future sanity: Pathfinder Society is usually abreviated PFS. Yeah, I know, Pathfinder is one word. But thats the way it goes.
LOL, thanks. PFS :)
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If you were to start your own PFS chapter (or join your local one), your players could all get PFS credit for having played Rise of the Runelords, even if they were not playing by PFS rules. (read the guide to organized play, under playing modules "campaign mode"Would that still be the case if I made modifications to the combats in the AP, such as increasing # of baddies, and sometimes adding class levels and maxing their hp (particularly for boss encounters)? I understand that a GM of a
PSPFS game is not allowed to make any changes to it.
For AP's, that is perfectly fine. There are 2 options for running sanctioned AP's currently.
First, they sanction a small portion of each book, usually a dungeon or the like, and you can run that portion of the book as a straight up scenario/module with all the PFS rules and playing PFS characters for credit.
Second, they also have a "home campaign" option for the AP's, and a couple of larger modules, where you are under no constraints to follow the PFS rules, or even run the game using Pathfinder rules, but you must run the entire book with the intent to run the entire AP. In that case, when you complete a book the players can choose to apply a chronicle to one of their PFS characters for credit.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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If you were to start your own PFS chapter (or join your local one), your players could all get PFS credit for having played Rise of the Runelords, even if they were not playing by PFS rules. (read the guide to organized play, under playing modules "campaign mode"Would that still be the case if I made modifications to the combats in the AP, such as increasing # of baddies, and sometimes adding class levels and maxing their hp (particularly for boss encounters)? I understand that a GM of a
PSPFS game is not allowed to make any changes to it.For AP's, that is perfectly fine. There are 2 options for running sanctioned AP's currently.
First, they sanction a small portion of each book, usually a dungeon or the like, and you can run that portion of the book as a straight up scenario/module with all the PFS rules and playing PFS characters for credit.
Second, they also have a "home campaign" option for the AP's, and a couple of larger modules, where you are under no constraints to follow the PFS rules, or even run the game using Pathfinder rules, but you must run the entire book with the intent to run the entire AP. In that case, when you complete a book the players can choose to apply a chronicle to one of their PFS characters for credit.
To paraphrase Mike Brock, in campaign mode if the PCs got most of the plot, they get the credit.
Various things that have been approved (explicitly or implicitly) include running the AP using savage worlds, running the AP as a LARP, and even making a movie of the AP (though obviously licensing and distribution on the last one would be a seperate problem)
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Just don't be surprised if it is too much for your group to handle.I'll keep this in mind as I prepare the scenario. Thank you for your insight. :)
If you were to start your own PFS chapter (or join your local one), your players could all get PFS credit for having played Rise of the Runelords, even if they were not playing by PFS rules. (read the guide to organized play, under playing modules "campaign mode"Would that still be the case if I made modifications to the combats in the AP, such as increasing # of baddies, and sometimes adding class levels and maxing their hp (particularly for boss encounters)? I understand that a GM of aPSPFS game is not allowed to make any changes to it.
1. Be sure to come back and let us know how it goes! :) (Despite the difficulty, that scenario is still one of my favorites.)
2. You can run Rise of the Runelords in campaign mode (the way it is intended to be run) and your group (including yourself) can get PFS credit for it. You can run it with whatever house rules you want. You can make whatever changes to it that you want. You can GM it under a different system of rules entirely.
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My King of the Storval Stairs scenario got delayed by everyone's schedules, the July 4th holiday, dealing with the aftermath of the Sandpoint Raid, the party convincing the Sandpoint townsfolk they should evacuate because of the looming giant army, and convincing the Magnamar Mayor to accept the refugees (that alone took most of a session cause everyone also wanted to make purchases and crafting).
We'll finally get to King of the Storval Stairs scenario this Friday. I'll post again after with the results. :)
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Ok, just got home from the session of running KotSS. The group made it only through 1/2 the fight. They are still in the middle of the harpies ambush.
They quickly dispatched the 1 Hill Giant Barbarian and 3 Hill Giants at the base of the stairs. The PC Sorcerer dominated 1 of the Hill Giants.
At the structure, they went into the smoke-filled room, fought 2 Hill Giant Barbarians and 2 Hill Giants. The PCs heard but didn't save the prisoner (they don't know this yet because he was thrown in the cooking pot before they engaged the Giants). The dominated Hill Giant was immediately killed as a "traitor", and the PC Sorcerer dominated a Hill Giant Barbarian. The other Hill Giant Barbarian failed a save against a 30' pit spell. Just got out of the pit 7 rounds later (kept failing his climb checks).
With 1 HGB dominated and other in pit, the normal Hill Giants fell easily to weapon damage from the 2 PC Dwarf Barbarians. Then the Harpies attacked.
Only the PC Ranger was captivated, but the 1 PC Dwarf Barbarian and HGB were sent with him. They were cut off from the Wall of Stone, which only lasted 2 rounds (PC Dwarf Barbarian is Mighty Large Weapon wielder).
Now the PCs have regrouped, but by this time, 1 harpy was panicked for 2 rounds, 3 are now confused, and the Harpy Queen has been all but infective for the fight after Wall of Stone and Hasting her harpies.
And that's were we ended the session. We'll pick up again in 2 weeks.
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Well... concluded this scenario. We had a local brush fire that delayed our start time by a couple of hours (local PD weren't allowing non-residents into the area while fire crews were in the area). As such, we only had enough time to complete the harpy ambush (which lasted 17 rounds). It ended with all the spell casters exhausted most of their spells, one of the barbarian dwarfs in negative hit points, and the oracle extremely low on healing. The other barbarian dwarf was less than 50% hit points. But the arcane archer was still full with lots of arrows remaining.
Since this scenario was going to continue on to a 3rd session and my group was anxious to return to the Rise of the Runelords AP, we decided not to finish this scenario. Besides we're sure it would have been a TPK against the giant king's group.
So, chalk this up as another "win" for a TPK scenario. It was a fun while it lasted. LOL
Really appreciate everyone's encouragement, support, and suggestions on this scenario. :)
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Thanks for the update, ckdragons! :)
I wish that the RotRL adventure path made more of the Storval Stairs in encounters/maps. They have illustrations of it, and it is such an iconic location, I feel they dropped a golden opportunity.