Sunderkin are half-dwarves. From all the research I've done they are a mix of human and dwarf and gain abilities similar to a half-elf but geared more toward the "tougher" traits than the dexterous ones.
I'm wondering why Sunderkin are not an official part of Pathfinder? I remember stumbling across a write-up on this potentially amazing race sometime last year and I can't for the life of me figure out where the information went. I thought it was here in the forums but after searching multiple ways I can't find a single reference to them.
Is this race just too unwieldy to be used in a campaign? Is there some stigma attached to Sunderkin that makes them more shunned than half-orcs or half-elves? I want to use this potentially shunned race as either npc's or for certain pc's who want to be tough but don't want to have the stigma of 'orc' attached to them.
Any help would be much appreciated!
...never heard of them. A quick search shows this thread as the second search result on google, and the first SEEMS like it might have been the thing you saw...on a now defunct website.
Not sure I've seen half elves getting anything 'dexterous' though. They can have dexterity. Or strength. OR anything really. They mostly seem like humans, with a tinge of magic/mental in there.
Heck, they are one of the better races for pure martials- they can pump their will saves up way high against some of the important spells and abilities, making them fantastic for rangers or slayers (who only have to worry about their will save)
Not sure if they would add much flavor wise. Half orcs already have something of a tough reputation of the halfbreeds. What did the build up actually...have? What makes them anything other than slightly short and stocky humans?
The point of mentioning half-elves was just to show that there would be adjustments such as adding a +1 here or there just like with half-elves.
I actually feel rather silly as I realized after I asked the question I had never actually searched under the terms "half dwarf" and what I found when I did was actually very eye-opening and went right along with my own thoughts on why you might want to play such a race.
First of all, AD&D 3.5e has half-dwarves as playable races! Check it out: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Half-Dwarf_(3.5e_Race)
And if you're up for a laugh, check out this Reddit discussion: http://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/182pse/why_are_there_no_halfdwarves/
When all is said and done it looks like this is actually something that could be added to Pathfinder and could be a lot of fun to play with! I personally usually end up running the games we play because no one else in our group seems to have any organizational skills. But if I wasn't running it I'd love to play a half dwarf!
Anyway, I kind of answered my own question, except for where the name "sunderkin" came from in the first place. Sounds like a pretty legit kind of name to me. I think I'll try incorporating this new class into my next campaign - I'm taking the group into the Emerald Spire. And I just picked up a copy of Pathfinder Unchained so that should be helpful in fleshing out the details of this class.
Still, I'd love to hear more from the community. What would be pros and cons of this kind of a class? Would anyone want to actually play one? I know I would but apparently I'm biased!
Hmmmm...well, my first reaction to the half dwarf posted was 'this is just a worse dwarf that happens to have a 30 speed'. Worse stats, watered down bonuses, etc.
When asking 'why are there no half dwarves', my first question might be 'were half dwarves part of 3.5's open content license?' I mean, that was the reason why we don't have beholders, and a lot of the other old abominations (which, unlike mythical creatures, are just something a person made up in recent times, and thus subject to copyright laws)
Of course, by that same logic, you can make a half dwarf race on the general lines 'we have half breeds of other races, so it is hardly something WotC has a claim on'. Still...it might be best to just throw out the old stats in that case, both to make it easier legally and ...again, those stats kinda suck.
in the 3.5 (and 2.0) dnd setting of darksun,a half dwarf half human was called a mule(also becuase it was starile) used to be a lot stronger then ether race avrage and bigger.they were usaly bred for gladiator rings.
in the 3.5 (and 2.0) dnd setting of darksun,a half dwarf half human was called a mule(also becuase it was starile) used to be a lot stronger then ether race avrage and bigger.they were usaly bred for gladiator rings.
Another problem- what exactly is compelling about this half breed?
That is the thing about being multiracial- you stand on two worlds, and the circumstances of your birth are a major part of who you are.
Half orcs are typically born of violence, and as such they are scorned as much as their fathers. They are also born from victims, and as such the orc tribes look down on them as weak.
Half elves are born due to the attraction between too similar but very different races- elves have beauty and elegant poise, while humans have the ambition and drive to achieve much NOW since they do not have the luxury of waiting a century or two.
Tieflings are burdened by the instinctual temptations of their ancestors and the persecution by those around them- but they still keep the mortal ability to choose to either avoid or embrace those instincts and expectations. They are born as another example of victim and agressor, and sometimes between willing participants.
Aasimar are revered due to their connection to such powerful and benevolent creatures...and they are burdened with a human nature that might not live up to those expectations. They are born when a celestial creature gives into temtpation for mortal beauty...or when they decide they want to use a mortal as a tool in their grander plans.
When you make a such a crossbred race, you need to consider the worlds that they straddle upon, and the story that brought them into this world. And with half dwarves...I am only seeing a few too many drinks and bad decisions.
While it is possible to make a unique flavor there...it can be hard to not step on the toes of other half breed races, and force the players to ask 'why don't you just make a half orc?'. Although...shaking things up and substituting the core races in your games at home can be interesting too. Just using the same 'elf, dwarf, halfling' over and over again can be stale. Maybe use a grippilli for your short race? Tengu for you 'wise and agile' race rather than elves?
I kinda just like the idea that Humans are this horny super-species that is able to breed viable offspring with virtually anything that is intelligent and has genitalia. It's funny to me. Even funnier that humans are apparently so dang attractive to everyone that these half-breeds keep happening.
I smell humanocentrism...
I am waiting for Half-Halflings myself.
They are all Half-halflings, there is just no other half.
and to the OP i Can Think of no worthy fiction where Half dwarfs is a thing.
I am waiting for Half-Halflings myself.
Three-quarterlings
I kinda just like the idea that Humans are this horny super-species that is able to breed viable offspring with virtually anything that is intelligent and has genitalia. It's funny to me. Even funnier that humans are apparently so dang attractive to everyone that these half-breeds keep happening.
So basically dragons, but more likely to be a random farm hand?
And I mention farm hand due to the minotaurs, satyrs, and centaurs...
I kinda just like the idea that Humans are this horny super-species that is able to breed viable offspring with virtually anything that is intelligent and has genitalia. It's funny to me. Even funnier that humans are apparently so dang attractive to everyone that these half-breeds keep happening.So basically dragons, but more likely to be a random farm hand?
And I mention farm hand due to the minotaurs, satyrs, and centaurs...
Yeah, humans are basically just small dragons.
The kobolds are going to be so upset about that.
I kinda just like the idea that Humans are this horny super-species that is able to breed viable offspring with virtually anything that is intelligent and has genitalia. It's funny to me. Even funnier that humans are apparently so dang attractive to everyone that these half-breeds keep happening.So basically dragons, but more likely to be a random farm hand?
And I mention farm hand due to the minotaurs, satyrs, and centaurs...
Yeah, humans are basically just small dragons.
The kobolds are going to be so upset about that.
"Don't worry, we can take care of that"
[the smooth jazz begins to play in a candle lit room covered in rose petals]
"...what? Someone has to make all those insane racial heritage (kobold) builds happen"
First off, you guys are hilarious! I mean it! I haven't had this much fun with a thread in quite some time!
But honestly, thirty years ago when I was a kid I would have totally made this happen for no other reason than I could. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm thinking that technology has made everyone lose their imagination - what we used to have fun imagining has given way to a world where if it isn't written or published by the game companies it can't be true. Kind of a sad state of affairs.
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and regardless of the outcome of this you all have given me a lot to think about and I thank you very much for that!