Wyvarans are a legal way to play half-dragons/dragonblooded creatures
Invulnerable Rager Barbarian / Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer / Dragon Disciple
Traits - Adopted (Orc - Tusked Race Trait [Bite attack]
Race [Tail Slap]
CL1 Brb1 Raging Vitality
CL2 Brb2 Lesser Draconic Bloodline [2 Claw Attacks]
CL3 Brb3 Improved Initiative
CL4 Brb4 Lesser Fiendish Totem [Gore Attacks]
CL5 Sor1 Extra Rage; Martial Flexibility
CL6 DD1
CL7 DD2 Extra Rage Power - Reckless Abandon; Power Attack
CL8 DD3
CL9 DD4 ???
CL10 DD5 Toughness
CL11 DD6 ???
CL12 DD7
Tentacle Cloack (14,000gp) [2 Tentacle Attacks]
Amulet of Mighty Fists (+4 Furious) - counts as +6 total Enhancement Bonus when Raging (and, yes, this is a legal way to get a numerical Enhancement Bonus above +5)
Wyvarans are 3PP, though, and many tables and GMs wouldn't allow 3PP, specially 3PP things that are better than average (like a race with 17 race points)
Bloodrager (draconic blood) gives you claws from lvl 1 while raging, at no cost. A Primalist Bloodrager can swap some bloodline powers for 2 rage powers, you coud take Fiendish Totem and other stuff. Half Orc or Tieflings get bite attack (others get it with Adopted), giving you 3 natural attacks at lvl 1.
You should ask your GM if he considers Bloodrage bloodline the same than Sorcerer bloodline for Dragon Disciple. If he does (I would, and would restrict your bloodrage line to draconic too), then you'll advance your bloodline powers with DD, and trade them for rage powers (Dragon Disciple give you similar ones). If it doesn't, then you could take a different bloodline (like arcane) and get the sorcerer dragon bloodline from Dragon Disciple.
With bloodrage bloodlines, you'll eventually become a dragon in fight, with dragon form II while you rage. In the meanwhile, you'll be a humanoid shaped dragon with claws, bite, gore (with horns), breath weapon, and you'll be flying with dragon wings.
Alternatively, you could build a Synthetist and buy the evolutions you want.
Wyvarans are 3PP, though, and many tables and GMs wouldn't allow 3PP, specially 3PP things that are better than average (like a race with 17 race points)
Wyvarans are from the Advanced Race Guide and Bestiary 4 - they're a Paizo creation. Look at the copyrights at the bottom of the link.
If you don't believe me, check the Bestiary 4 or the Advanced Race Guide on the PRD itself
Sorry what are PP again. Still getting used to the lingo.
3PP is short for "third party", as in "not printed by Paizo"
But Wyvarans are printed by Paizo, so you're okay.
Also from what I can tell, 10 of those RP are sunk into just being a dragon while only seven actually give me some kind of feat.
Having Dragon as your Creature Type (with Wyvaran as your sub-type), means that you're immune to Sleep and Paralysis effects.
The immunity to Sleep isn't any different than an Elf's, but the Immunity to Paralysis is good.
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Beyond that, you gain a Fly speed and a Natural Attack.
A Fly speed of 30ft is a very powerful ability at 1st level, but by 3rd level becomes basically mundane.
As for the Natural Attacks, there are plenty of races and abilities that gain you Natural Attacks, either in their default versions with Alternate Racial Traits.
If you're willing to compromise on your goal, the draconic sorcerer or draconic sorcerer/dragon disciple is a good way to goal, You get an increasingly draconic appearance, and the eventual ability to take dragon form, usable claws which improve as your level, and increased strength to put on more hurt, and most importantly in the latter path, an increased HP bump.
I basically agree with this, I just wish that the draconic sorcerer got claws for *minutes* instead of *rounds*
It would make this concept far more playable in my opinion.
If all what you want to do is claw, claw, and claw to your heart's content, perhaps you should be looking at one of the more feral barbarian, druid, and ranger paths instead? You'll need to compromise on the draconic aspects though, to do so.Well I wanted to do the claw/bite/tail natural move set. And maybe if there is some way to do it make the breath really powerful but that seems to level along with magic feats instead of natural. I was thinking it may be neat to go monk and try to get the feat that allows fury of blows with natural weapons but it definitely seems that other paths such as slayer and barbarian would be better suited. The nice thing about slayer is that I can pick up a ranger combat style and choose from Aspect of the Beast, Improved Natural Attack, Rending Claws. However, I'm not sure if it's even possible to get eldricht claws because i won't be dipping 6.
Gaining Claws is also extremely simple - they're literally the most-common natural weapon available to players:
Lesser Beast Totem Rage Power
Lesser Draconic Bloodline Rage Power
Lesser Abyssal Bloodline Rage Power
Draconic Bloodline (Sorcerer)
Draconic Bloodline (Bloodrager)
Claw Attack Tengu Alternate Racial Trait
Cat's Claws Catfolk Alternate Racial Trait
etc.
There's little to no reason to take Ranger or Slayer JUST to take Aspect of the Beast in order to gain Claw Attacks, especially since Barbarian allows you to not only gain Class, but also a Bite and Gore attack, etc.
With the Barbarian build I mentioned above, at lv4, your Full Attack Action looks like this:
+4 (Bite 1d6+Str) / +4 (Claw 1d4+Str) / +4 (Claw 1d4+Str) / +4 (Gore 1d6+Str) / -1 (Tail Slap 1d6+1/2 Str)
You're getting more attacks off than a Monk or any other Two-Weapon martial, and as many attacks as a 16th-level martial with one weapon.
And even if you DON'T take Wyvaran and instead choose something like a Human, you're still making 4 attacks with Primary weapons, meaning you're attacking 4 times each at your highest BAB and adding your entire Strength Bonus to damage.
Then there's also this nasty lil' piece of work (sticking to the Dragon theme here):
Invulnerable Rager Urban Barbarian (always raise Dex while raging)
Dragonmaw Day Raider Kobold
Race Dragonmaw Alternate Racial Trait [Bite Attack]
CL1 Barb1 Weapon Finesse
CL2 Barb2 Lesser Draconic Blood Rage Power [2 Claws]
CL3 Barb3 Tail Terror [Tail Slap]
CL4 Barb4 Lesser Fiend Totem [Gore]
CL5 Barb5 Draconic Aspect (1st Element)
CL6 Barb6 Draconic Blood Rage Power (2nd Element)
CL7 Barb7 Draconic Breath
CL8 Barb8 Fiend Totem Rage Power
CL9 Barb9 Draconic Wings
CL10 Barb10 Energy Resistance Rage Power (3rd Element) OR Improved Damage Reduction
CL11 Barb11 Draconic Paragon
CL12 Barb12 Energy Resistance Rage Power (4th Element) OR Improved Damage Reduction
Item: Amulet of Mighty Fists - +4 Agile
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It's honestly not as good as the Wyvaran build, but it is fun and there isn't a DM who'd say no to it, because Kobolds are UNDERpowered if anything, unless you know what you're doing when you build one.
W/ regards to the wyvaran I checked with my DM and he had this to say:
The race honestly doesn't look too bad, only thing that really stands out is the flight. So I'm going to say yes, but with a few considerations.
As a winged creature, your character will have difficulty using armor that is made for most humanoids. Not only does it hamper your flight abilities slightly, but you'll have to get armor adjusted because of the presence of wings.
As a being clearly related to dragons, you will stick out socially like a sore thumb. NPC's may be reluctant to talk with you, or seek reassurance from humanoid party members that you are safe to be around. You may not mind this, but just be aware that NPC's will typically see you more as a beast than as a person.
Now I'm not too sure how badly affected that armor stipulation may be so input on that would be nice. I was thinking that there may be a way to branch off to just get a natural armor perk and build upon it.
If you all are interested this is the setting he's created:
Due to my lack of experience I pose the question to you guys what you think of how those penalties could play out here. Too much of a pain or manageable?
Dawn's Edge (working name for the material plane city) and Shadowtown are connected by a large portal in the shape of a archway in each city's respective harbor. This archway extends down to the ocean floor, and is large enough for several ships to pass through. It is guarded by a small navy on each side, so it is very hard to sneak through unseen.Dawn's Edge is a religious town, who's most favored deity is Iomedae, though there are also smaller populations of Torag and Erastil worshippers. Shadowtown, on the other hand, is starkly athiestic. The reason for this is that the Fetchlings who run Shadowtown were formerly servants to the macabre beings of the plane of shadow, and are now reluctant to pledge servitude to any other entity, even apparently good ones. As part of their trade agreement, while worshipers and clerics are permitted in Shadowtown, proselytizing is strictly illegal.
However trouble is arising
As long as your DM isn't too crazy about it, it should be fine.
There are already rules for armor for Unusual Creatures that adhere to what your DM has said, and a Wyvaran would count as an Unusual Creature according to your DM. So your Armor's basic cost would be twice that of a normal set.
Taking a -2 penalty on Diplomacy checks vs Humanoids would be appropriate penalty (although you should probably ALSO get a +2 on Intimidate checks vs Humanoids, as well, for the same reasons).
The only thing that's going to suck is that you'll probably want a Mithral Breastplate, which normally costs 4350 (4000gp for the Mithral, 350 for the base masterwork breastplate cost); depending on how your DM rules it, the x2 could either apply just to the masterwork breastplate (making it 4700gp), or to the whole thing (making it 8700gp).
But, you may not want heavier armor anyway, considering that Arcane Spell Failure is a thing and has a flat % chance of causing your spells to fizzle - instead, you can get by on Bracers of Armor and having an Amulet of Might Fists & Natural Armor (which is great, considering that you gain Natural Armor from both your Bloodline and from Dragon Disciple).
These'll be the main things you'll want, especially if you're not wearing normal Armor:
Amulet of Natural Fists (Amulet of Might Fists/Amulet of Natural Armor combined)
+1 Natural Armor - 2000gp
+1 Nat Armor; Furious - 6000gp
+2 Nat Armor; Furious - 12,000gp
+2 Nat Armor; +1 Furious - 24,000gp
+3 Nat Armor; +1 Furious - 34,000gp
+3 Nat Armor; +2 Furious - 54,000gp
+4 Nat Armor; +2 Furious - 68,000gp
+4 Nat Armor; +3 Furious - 96,000gp
+5 Nat Armor; +3 Furious - 114,000gp
+5 Nat Armor; +4 Furious - 150,000gp
As a Barbarian, you should always have Furious on your Amulet; you can choose whether you want a +X bonuses afterwards or whether you want to substitute those for Flaming; either way should work.
At lv12, you'll probably want to have:
Cloak of Resistance +2 (4,000gp)
Ring of Deflection +2 (8,000gp)
Amulet +3/+2 Furious (54,000gp)
Bracers of Armor +6 (36,000gp)
So your AC will be: 10 + 6(Armor) + 7(Nat Arm) + 2(Deflection) + Dex
Your Saves will be: +10 Fort / +5 Reflex / +9 Will
Your Stats will be: +4 Str, +2 Con
Your Caster Level will be: Sorcerer 6th (meaning you can cast 3rd level spells)
What I was trying to accomplish if possible was have all these natural attacks available to me while unenraged. From what I can tell correct me if I'm wrong but it works that I'd get all of these attack options while unenraged except the claws, which are linked to the draconic blood.
Draconic Blood, which is a Rage Power.
Also, you'll never NOT want to Rage.
Not only is it what Barbarians do, it's a freakishly strong ability, and you'll have plenty of rounds of Rage regardless.
At 4+Con+2/level, even at level 1, you'll almost always have enough rounds of rage for every level.
If nothing else, because of how Natural Weapons work, you can always make a single Tail Slap when not Raging each round, and add 1.5x Str when doing so.
Another thing that I found that concerned me was whether to use the draconic bloodline breath attack or level up barbarian enough in order to use the Draconic blood, greater (su) which gives me it's version of the breath attack. The plus for the second is that it's based on my Str and barbarian levels while the bloodline is charisma and sorc levels.
Should i just go ahead and sink points into charisma? Or somehow try to get 10 levels into barbarian along the line?
The most Charisma you need to have for PFS is 13.
The highest spell level you'll have with lv4 Barb/lv1 Sorc/Lv7 DD is 3rd Level Spells, like Fireball.
Dragon Disciple gives you a permanent +4 Str and +2 Con, which is, in effect, actually better than Improved Rage (you effectively have a +8/+6 when raging compared to your "natural" stats, vs. +6/+6, and with Raging Vitality - which you basically NEED to take - it's +8/+8, which is equivalent to Greater Rage, the 20th level ability of a Barbarian).
Dragon Disciple gives you use of your Breath Weapon when you're not Raging, and Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer gives you Martial Flexibility which is a very, very strong and useful ability (and a fine trade-off, since you've already got Claws from the Lesser Draconic Blood Rage Power, so losing them from your Sorcerer Bloodline won't affect anything really).
While Barbarian is a very good class, for what you want, a Dragon Disciple gets you access to them faster and better than the Barbarian will.
sorry what's PFS?
Pathfinder Society.
It's the organized play group of Pathfinder (kinda like a tabletop MMO); play only goes from lv1-12 usually (VERY Rarely will it hit 13, and sometimes only hits lv11).
It has heavily-regulated rules and requires players to keep an online record of their character in order to play (so that DMs can look up and track appropriate data to make sure no-one's cheating).
Most players stat out characters up to lv12 because that's the max expected level in PFS.
If you're playing in a home game, then you can plan your characters to whatever level you choose (because who knows where you'll stop), but it's best to plan your character up to about lv10-12 anyway, just so that your character's core concept is "finished" by then, and everything thereafter is simply building on that basic framework.
Ehem:
Slapping Tail (Ex): Wyvarans have a tail attack they can only use when making attacks of opportunity. This slapping tail attack deals 1d8 points of damage plus the wyvaran's Strength modifier.
You can only use the tail during a AOO, just in case that was missed.
Alright good to know. I think for now I'm mostly good. Unfortunately my DM informed me he didn't want to use stuff from advanced character creation so no tusked trait :( he says it me be too complicated for new players.
That's unfortunate - Traits are cool.
The good news is there's a Rage Power that gives you a Bite anyway.
If 3rd party products are allowed an aberrant aegis could be fluffed as becoming draconic in appearance.
Soooo.... Apparently the dm is not allowing racial traits due to people in the group being beginners. That sucks. This is kylar just changed alias
Are there people here that host games over the internet? If so is there a looking for group function or is there another kind of site that does that?
So how many times do you all think I should sink points into Imp. natural attack feat?
Also what would you reccommend my starting point spread be for str, char, dex, etc?